April 5, 2020

Using Influencer Marketing to Grow Your Business With Ed O’keefe


Do you go under an Instagram, you see people that have the right
lifestyle photos and look and feel of it. Private message them. Yeah. You know, and if they have less
than 5,000 followers, they don’t consider themselves
as informants. Right. So if you send them free gear,
they’ll do anything for you. You’re listening to business
lunch with Roland Frasier. This is your seat at the table. Hey everybody, Roland Frasier with business lunch here
and I am here with my guest today Ed Okeefe. Ed, welcome to the show. I’m really excited and this is an awesome
podcast and you’re a pretty awesome guy. So I think this is going
to be fun. Back at you first. You were like way ahead of the curve
cause you started the ed O’Keefe show. You flew, I think I might’ve
been the first episode. You were my first episode I flew to, I
like, Oh was that right? Yeah, I was, I was excited. We were meeting
with sprint and you’re like, I’m going to take the team
out there and you’re like, you hired people locally and came out
and had the whole thing in the hotel. It was kinda kinda cool and it
was cold. It was crazy. Crazy. Well, anyway, welcome to the show. So you’ve got a whole bunch of cool
things going so people know what you, you know, what you do generally
and all the things you have. I think the first thing is to say you’ve
built a solid eight figure business just so people know that, that you’ve
had some significant success too. But will you kind of give them a
little overview? Yeah. I, you know, it’s a funny, Jay Ram just spoke to my
group and he’s like you know, when, when, when you have a lot of
things to say, you, you, you have to say your uncategorizable
or you’re, you don’t know, categorize or category fits me. I’ll have to work on how
to explain on categorize. But so my background’s
kinda interesting. Like, so I grew up in a blue collar family.
When I go South, Chicago, South side, still live there. You know, my
dad was an electrician eight, eight brothers, four sisters, and cause
he own his own electrical business. Was he an OC? No. You know, like, I
mean it’s, it’s great question. Like we, we grew up in a family where a great
week, like if you said, Hey Jack, how’s work? He’d say, great,
I have overtime. You know, like he earned the right to spend 20
more hours working at time and a half or double time. Like that’s
what the family I grew up in. So I was the first to actually go to
college. Fortunate to play volleyball, get a scholarship. Otherwise in
our family it was you go to work, right? You get a good job, you go to
a union security. Yeah. Pension. Yeah. And that’s, retirement is working
too. That’s, yeah, exactly right. And so I was lucky I got my nursing
degree, but I stumbled across thinking, grow rich. You know, chicken soup
for the soul, all those, those books. And then I did what all entrepreneurs do. You just become an entrepreneur
and usually that means
you’re going to be broke for the next four to five years
as you’re figuring that out. First business I ever got into
was doing, I licensed the rights. You’d like this as a this is the first
entrepreneurial vision. Yeah. Well, you know what? My first entrepreneurial business was
like teaching mental toughness strategies for volleyball players a little bit
longer, but it was my first info product. Right? So you were playing volleyball,
I’m assuming I coached volleyball, played in college, saw the need,
saw the need learned NLP, you know, it was trying to be the Tony Robins for
like volleyball coach. It’s a niche. It’s found a niche. But I realized that
I couldn’t get rich that way. Right. I couldn’t make money that
way here. I was fighting to sell to a broke crowd. They didn’t
have money, coaches don’t have money, and I was selling a $29 product. So I
started doing the math and I was like, well that’s not going to work. So it’s actually important just to take
a minute to break it down for people that are watching cars or listening.
Cause the, a lot of people are like, I want to sell. Like I came
up as a musician. So I, one of the first things I ever did was a
product for musicians and realized that musicians won’t spend money, they
don’t want to have their songs stolen, but they will go steal information
from other people and not pay for it. But because also they’re broke. Right. but you realized I shouldn’t continue
pursuing this and a lot of people don’t get that. So for everybody
that’s listening, how did, how did you have that realization and
how should people think about this? Probably it was probably like the 500th
time I did the math exercise either by Dan Kennedy or like, you know, you find
a market, do your math live here? Yeah. I mean, you know, what’s the,
what’s the math to a million, right? Take your average transaction size. Let’s say it’s $100 and my mind was
like $47 and then divided by a million. And I think that’s what, 10,000 thousand.
Yeah, I mean, so you need 20,000. I think my mailing Louis was 3,200.
Right. And that wasn’t even customers. That was the perspective
thing. And I was like, okay I can’t make, I can’t
leave my bartending job while doing this. And so,
so one of the things though, one of the mentors that might
at the time, you know, I, I, and I’ll tell you what I did, I went right to the mentors who I was
paying to be in their membership and I said, Hey, I at the time I was 25 and I was like
can I work for free for you guys? Cause they at the time were
in these niches selling a
how to grow your practice, how to grow your business, 101
secrets to do this. And I was like, you know what the money is in
teaching people how to make money. Like I figured that out. That is a huge
niche. It’s a big net, right? Yeah. But you, so you, you did the math.
Just going back to this thing, so twenty thousand twenty thousand people
is what you would need to sell to make the million 20,000 cost. You had no high
end product on top of that. I mean we, yeah, maybe I had 109 eight nine $9 VHS set
thing that one out of a cajillion would buy and it was so crappy, but it
was a, the content was really good. So this goes to size of market. The one of the first things that people
should think about is what’s the size of your market? The size of your market
you identified was 3,200 people. It wasn’t big enough for you to achieve
the goal that you wanted to achieve. It’s great if that’s what you want
to do. Then quality of market, because this was a market
that wasn’t willing to spend. Correct enough because they
weren’t making enough off of this. This was like hobbies and they’re, it’s
not like they’re making emails. Like, I’ll talk to my athletic director,
see if we can do a PO. And I was like, this is not what am doing right. And
something I like pattern recognition. I noticed that I was doing
the fundamentals correctly,
identified a market. I wrote a set long form sales letter.
I was able to send postcards out, get leads, send out a direct mail piece. So there was something
there that I was learning. I was proud of myself for that. I identified that and I think even people
that might be struggling or trying to figure out what their, you know, soon as you just got to focus on your
process when your success results are not always where they’re supposed to be.
If you’re doing the process right, you may be doing it better
than 99% of the population. You just might be doing it in the
wrong fishing hole. Exactly. You know, and you had mentors also
at this time identified. I think one of the things I got
lucky early on was something, and I think this was a little God-given
cause it was instinctive that I realized that education was way more
important than anything. And I was willing to, you know,
put money on my credit card, even when I didn’t have it. I was willing to bartend to get the cash
to then I was willing to coach a coach to get free rent. Right, right. I
still do that today. I was, I met, we’re at war right now and I got free
rent from Roland because well done. But you know, I think that that you know, like if anyone’s listening to this
and they’d never been a traffic and conversion or war room or any
of your other events, they, they really owe it to themselves to
invest in themselves to do that. Right. and so one of my mentors at the time
said I would go into a white collar niche that are already spending money on in, in with something they suck at and
they need. And specifically this was I, I mean to cut short this I went to into
the dental market [inaudible] they need patients, they’ve got
money, they have money, they’re already spending money on similar
things to it and they do what you said there is a service or an offer that
will show them how to make money. So I like make money. Doesn’t have to
be make money sitting in your underwear, eating Cheetos at home, kind of
sleazy. It can be not here’s a, yeah, hopefully well respected practice dentists
and you’re going to show them how to make more money. Yeah. And there
are great, yeah, great group. They’ve got the money to invest in how
many stars are in the United States? I mean there’s, you know, over a hundred.
Some thousand in market. Yeah. In, in, you know, the positive side is that you can grow
a nice multimillion dollar business in a market like that with even just a
thousand custom. Exactly. You know, a couple hundred. So you did the
math on here and how did the math, I did the math on that. And so
long story short, fast forward, my first ad I wrote ran was a
trade magazine ad spent 1800 bucks, made seven sales. The gross revenue
on that was around 7,500 bucks. Wow. I got something. I just made
more money than I did, you know, in that one month. And how
smart, cause you went to the, you went to a media that had only those
people that they respected and basically bought in, bought your way in. Right?
Yeah, I did a lot of the old school stuff. Where’s the trade magazines request the
trade magazines call requests first, third of the news, you know,
newspaper news magazine, upper right hand corner or not, you know,
all those things. I learned all that. And I think it’s another great thing is
that everything you want to accomplish, you can acquire the skill sets and you
don’t need to have an education from, from traditional. Right.
And so I grew that. And I want to say at the time
I was one of the first, if not, I think I was the first
to bring niche-specific, direct response marketing
to that practice. Sure. In fairness to Dan Kennedy
and some other guys, I think they had clients but no one
specifically specialized in them. They had generalists but
not to grow a coaching club. And I did that all the way up until
around 2008. 2009 I was, I sold one, which is vision when we met.
Yeah, I sold one division. If I was really intelligent, I would have probably brought you on
as an advisor to help sell my entire company. Cause there’s a book like how to grow
your business and sell it for millions. Well, I didn’t even have
to read the first chapter. I just read the introduction
and I was like, Oh my gosh, I did every one of these
things wrong. Like, cause somebody had just told me about
this book a year ago. And anyway, I sold one of those divisions and I,
and I want to say one other thing too, is like I in the back of my head,
I had this voice, first of all, I didn’t want to be known as
the dental guy my whole life. And everywhere I was going in these
kinds of types of masterminds, people were like, Hey, ed, ed O’Keefe,
aren’t you the dental guy? Like, Oh, you’re the dental guy. I’m like, I’m not
a fricking dental get man. I was like, I was like, I’m a bad ass. I can go
do whatever. I can go grow any better. The dental guy, it’s easier for us,
say Hoover us. Right? but I really, I, there’s only so many ways to grow a
dental practice or any kind of practice or pry any business. I didn’t want to be seven years old
talking about the same crap, right? So one question I had
inside myself was like, could I really do I really have the
chops to go into a broader market, take a product from scratch and scale
it? And so after doing a lot of research, I chose the health and fitness market
with the goal of bringing a supplement to the market. A first launch on that was took about
six weeks to lose about $150,000 and completely embarrass myself. That
was one that we talked about. You brought that opportunity to me to
invest in and I was kicking myself after it when you adult it to 20 million
plus business for not investing. But now I remember that you said was the
jumpstart though. Yeah. You, I can’t, you, we, we had talked about
doing something. You made
the right move. I mean, you know, you never I was
going into a new market, didn’t have any experience in a
$300,000 now for half of your yeah, exactly right. Yeah. Well, yeah, I
have, I have a better idea. Yeah, I have a better idea. But then
ask you real quick did you, so we talked about direct mail for
starting that business then and, and also that was the initial way
that you started this business. If somebody was to start a business or
if you were to start in say a different, like let’s say you decided
to go after chiropractors, would you use direct mail or would
you do something else this time? Yeah, great question. So if I
was in a market like that, I think the first thing I would do is Oh, I’ll tell you from recent results, like we just tested some ads
in the dental space. Again, there’s something that I think be
super, super successful for the dentist. Did you test those ads because you’re
the dental guy? Yeah. And now, so like, so the maturity, like nine years later,
like I look back on my younger self, I’m like, you let your ego dictate
strategic decisions, right? Like you, it’s a, it wasn’t an either
or proposition. Right, right. You know, and I think that’s one of
the conversations we have
there. So was like, well, do I do this or that? Well, two, two
or one, but can’t ride two horses, but two horses can be run on, on a
track. Yes. You know, where’s your role? Or you need more jockeys.
Yeah, that’s right. So this is, goes to the talk you did to my group
today. That was amazing. But anyhow, so recently we did that and we
just ran some Facebook eggs. The cost per lead was really high. The
engagement was lower than I expected. That doesn’t affect the, there’s so
many variables that go into them. But I will tell you that the
trade magazine email drops, old school email drops, which
is how I actually launched the the supplement business after doing direct
mail. We went right into email drops. It’s still a very it’s an amazing what everyone needs to
know about email drops and newsletters and news, bullet letter publications
or highly targeted lists. It’s still one of the fastest, quickest ways to test and
get a lot of data very, very rapidly in a controlled
space. Right. You know? So if you’re going to do that, what’s
the process? Yeah, it’s really simple. Like, so one of two things. One is if I’m
in the health space, all right, I can, I know guys who are super
successful who have email lists. Let’s say you don’t know this guy. Well
then I could post on Facebook saying, does anyone know anyone who has helpless
that they’d rent for her men 55 plus who are interested in heart?
And people will just show up. But if you don’t know that, then the other thing you do
is maybe you go to Google, you start doing this basic level
research. This is basic level stuff. Like just ask Google. If you don’t even
know that, then you go to a seminar, you come to one of our events, like, can I pitch my event all over
and go ed O’Keefe live like we, one of things we do is we run health
supplement, superfood nutrition. We’re the only company who
does or only one I know, seminar business that does this
specifically for health, fitness, nutrition businesses and
product businesses online. And you talk to the people around you
and be like, Hey, what do you do? Well, well, it’s funny, you know, I run a newsletter or I have
a info product or I do this. But even at like traffic
and conversion, I think 30, 40% of the people you meet there,
every health experts there. And so the thing go to
a health event, right? Like the natural food summit or something
like that. Yeah. And you know there, there is a specific system that you
should do which are go to like Newsmax health. I’m sorry. Now it can be very
specific to migraines. Get on Clara, like Newsmax health.com you contact them,
you email the editorial, you go, Hey, what would it cost for me to run an email
drop? Well, what’s your product about? Okay. Do you have a list about,
okay, we have a prostate list. Okay. That’s usually men over the
age of 50, right? Yeah. I mean, hopefully today you could be anything
you want. That might be, I can’t, I’m not gonna ruin your whole podcast. Get you banned from Twitter by
making it general, by not having, Oh my gosh. You know and then you,
you know, you get the rates and you, then you say to them, no,
I mean, do you have okay, so here’s a systematic approach. Number
one is you ask, Hey, I need some rates. I’m a health marketer looking to promote
a product. They’re going to say, yeah, here’s our rate. It’s say 15 $15 per thousand emails. And they’re going to say, here’s
what 80,000 will cost you. You guys can do the math. That’s
probably like 80, 9,600 bucks. Okay. And you say to them, Hey, well, do you got any discounts for multi
purchase drops? And they’re going to say, well, our food more than one time, more
than one time. And you say, okay, cool. Well, if you’re if you did
if you committed to four, right your rate would be
$7. So I just saved half. I’m making some of this up,
but I’m not like, this is this, this is a real numbers. I mean real.
Or you have agency percentages, right? And so then they can knock off
10, 20%. So and then you say, what’s your minimum amount I can drop
to do allow me to do split tests? Cause you always want to split test the
subject line and if you can also split test the creative,
that’s four tests, right? And yeah I gotta you know you
want to mail at least 20,000, 30,000 names and yeah, I think so too. If you’re going to do a
four way split test, okay, you want 20,000 hundred to
control basically that. Thank you. That’s a great way to put it. And then you use unique links so that
you can track back which one brought in the most amount of sales and bam, you’re off to the races and you’ve got
a business. And if you got good results, here’s like the real secret thing is if
you have results that are within scoring distance, you should consider that
a home run mean scoring distance. Distance means that I need to be at a 1.3
return on ad spend to completely break even. Like if you spend $100 and you’d
get 130 to break even. Thank you. Yes. After costs, good, sold, blah,
blah, and a product. It’s, most people don’t
calculate this stuff. Yeah, and if you really want to be a frugal,
you say, well, I need to be at 1.5 right? Okay. That’s okay. But what’s really powerful here is you’re
going to quickly see like where your gap in your whole game plan is.
Is it the, is it the sales letter? Is it the amount of clicks, cost
per click, all that fun stuff. But this is where the magic
happens is you run that out, you start testing, you take
the best parts of all of that, and you get better at
that to the point where, let’s just pretend you did it through
four newsletters and you broke even on all of them. So really you’re still a loser. You can’t pay for anything for
your wife or your kids. However, when you go to the first meeting and
you run into the guy who has tens of millions of customers and is a
super affiliate and you’re able to, when he says to you like, well what’s
your offer and what’s your data? You got some and you can say like, well our earnings per click at Newsmax
health is a buck 20 and then we tested it with you know, remedy central. I’m making this up a little bit or easy
health options and it was a buck 50. He’s going to be like, really? Okay, give me your best creative
and I’ll run it for you. [inaudible] And now you got a new best
friend, right? And now you just became, you totally segmented
yourself away from being a, a taker to somebody who’s out hustling.
You’re out spending money. Yeah, you have customers. And then so
that’s the system. And then you can, you can use that same system
across every platform. And now do you teach
this stuff or is yours, cause the thing that I just spoke at
that you’ve got here right now seem more advanced, is that today was this, this was more of a mastermind
where it’s more advanced, but we have a course on
this stuff and and yeah, we do intensives that teach
specifically this process. Okay, cool. So one of the things that you’re really
good at that you’re coordinating for us is our, our traffic event that’s
coming up in October, October. You have a traffic event that,
what was the name of that? You have a couple of traffic mastery.
Okay. And what does that tell us? Here’s the deal. If you’re on online
business, you need traffic, right? And really what people love the turbo.
I need traffic when the reality is, is you need to understand the ecosystem
that those visitors and those people are coming from. And so what I do, and I’m doing for a war
room here in October, is we’re bringing the best people
from all the different multichannel. And what are all the channels? There’s
a lot of Facebook. Yeah. So Facebook, Instagram, Google Google display network.
So Google search, Google display, Google shopping. You have
YouTube, you have native, which is really advertorials, like content based on platforms that you
can run your ads on. You have Snapchat, you have Instagram placements,
Instagram stories. I mean, so you do anything with Pinterest. I don’t do anything specifically
with Pinterest. But you know, even like depending on if you’re B2B, like LinkedIn is just a gigantic growing
like place that and so what I want to say and stop anybody who’s listening
to this that’s like, well, I’m not the, I’m the CEO or I’m the head of marketing. I really don’t need to learn about how
traffic is working or how influencers are now becoming one of the fastest growing
tools you can utilize to a 10 X value of your brand. I mean, my buddy Josh shells at J was snow teeth
white and he’s doing it brilliantly. You know, I just got connected to
him. Yeah, he’s great. He’s great. You should be on the show. He, he, he’s great and he’s just
going to be on the show. He’s utilizing influencers at a level
that everybody should pay attention to because he is right now like
the Michael Jordan of it. And we don’t even know what the game
is yet. He, he built what I mean, was it the, the snow? It’s snow white
teeth whitening, road teeth white. And he built it to like a hundred million
plus in five months or some ridiculous 18 months. But, but well he’s a loser
then he’s, he’s a loser. Come on dude. After, you know, at the age of 26, 27
and then I’m man, get a life. Yeah. And we just, we just, we had Nick shackle
for downstairs speaking to the group. He’s he’s going to probably be on
your show as well. And in whatever, when he’s understand is that like,
even if you don’t understand like yeah, your job is not to know how the
clicks work and the Google network, but your job is to understand
the ecosystem and from a
meta level how it works so that you know, when you’re hiring or bringing people
into your system that that you’re not, you’re not hiring all these C
level guy. So a lot of agents, just just to mention this for a minute,
we talk a lot about about that as well. And, and somebody wrote a book up on it, but we’re talking about being a full
stack marketer now and being a full stack CEO or business owner, you need
to be broad in your knowledge, broad and shallow in your knowledge across
all of the things that your business is doing or you might need to do. It’s
good to be deep in at least one of them, right? And that really you want
that for everybody in the company. So for people that are listening
that are saying, you know, well that’s in the weeds. I don’t need to know conversion
rates and stuff like that. Yeah, you’re going to lose money, you’re
going to lose money. Exactly. When I think about that, I mean the camera like for a football
analogy is probably a great example is like yeah, you’re not the defense
coordinator, but you, you may have, you got your chops somewhere. You’re either 99 first time you were
either the offense corner of the divas. So you were deep in that you were deep
and you got your 10,000 hours in that. Yep. But you also need to understand the
level of detail at some level of defense because guess what, you’re
competing as defendant. I didn’t know if the guy across the
table knows what he’s talking about and I need to mentor and coach them
appropriately. And if you’re a CEO, you need to know that the
people who are under you, who are your offensive line
coordinator, your defensive, like know what they’re doing. So you have to have that breadth of
knowledge or at least know enough to know that they’re doing what they’re
doing, right. Because a lot of people, a lot of people have traffic and marketing
people who are working for them are contractors and they’re not
performing or they’re underperforming. And the people who have employed
them don’t even know that they’re underperforming because they don’t know
enough about how traffic works. Well, let’s talk about like, you know,
I’m big in the health market. You and I are continually looking
for opportunities to work together. I’m looking at advising in from
besties jars of God’s screens. I have. Yeah, right. I know, right? Like, but
I am amazed when I talked to really, really bright people who are either
investors or they have put themselves as like a, a level executive within an organization
who have zero clue about how digital advertising really is surprising. And so I see that as a huge opportunity
to come alongside some of these potentially disruptive companies, whether it’s in the plant
based market or any cause. I’m passionate about that space
and I’m completely disrupted. Billion dollar market
because these, these VCs, they may have a lot of money, but they’re, they’re going to waste tens of
millions with idiots. And I mean, you’ve already seen it. I’ve already
seen it, like with one of my investments, I, and I’m still amazed at how they can
have access to some of the best marketers in the world yet they’re going out and
hiring agencies who you’re one of like 40 clients and the junior person that doesn’t
know how to do this and hasn’t proved yeah, they 100%. So yeah, I digress
a little bit, but no worries. So we were talking about kind of moving
forward what you did in and and the things that you do with traffic. When we were talking about traffic
channels and then I interrupted you with Pinterest and then we kind of went
down that other line. But yeah, you were saying generally I believe
is that it’s important to have some knowledge of that and then you’re, you’ve really developed a whole
lot of those different channels. How would you approach that now when you, when you go into something
you’ve done those email drops, let’s say that we talked about before.
Now what’s next? Yeah, well, you know, so we have a couple of nutrition. I still
have a couple of nutrition business. One is Marine essentials, one is uncommon
nutrition. And I advise and coach, you know, well over 30 different I want to call them disruptive brands
because they really need to find a disruptive hold in the marketplace to
actually be something that’s going to have longevity. And so one of the first things
we’re always looking at is like, well, where’s your number one? Number two is
like is your market hyper-responsive? Do they have a pain? Are you truly
solving it? Is it growing or is it dying? And that’s also with media.
It’s like right now, you know, people are talking about Facebook, blah,
blah, blah. I really, by the way, I, you know, like everyone says, a certain media channels going to die
and usually they’re wrong. You know, like when Google went through
its correction 10 years ago, the guys who stuck with those
media channels, you know, they’re the pros still
their world-class at it. I’m still doubled down on my
space. Yeah, right. I know, right. Or Oh yeah, you know, like my kids are
really into tick tock. So it really, you should, you should go there and
it’d be something there. It’s a giant, unbelievable. But what I do
know, what I do know is that the, there’s a lot of media buyers that
are really, really good experts. That’s a horrible way of saying it. Are experts at like YouTube and Google
display network. They’re specialists, they’re specialists, and they’re getting
phenomenal results for their clients. Right. And so I usually
say, Hey, you know, you gotta so we use a little bit of
reverse engineering if we’re going to go into market, we look at who’s
doing it, what are they doing, how are they doing it? And we have tools
that can figure out their funnel flow, which is what you guys teach a ton of at
traffic. And conversion is your thing. Things like I had beaten someone
that had similar web, I’m old school, get my credit card out to actually
Camtasia or yeah. Or Jane or loom and, and record the whole flow.
Yep. And I mean, we, you know, like you can listen to split test
optimization guys all day long, but why they, this
company’s doing say 30, 40, $50,000 a day in ad spend to this funnel. Maybe that’s a good template to start
with, right? And then we iterate off that. And the messaging that
seems to be, you know, getting millions of views
on ads, not, well, I mean, Facebook gives you the visibility.
Maybe we model off that, right? So you’re trying to take
as many proven parts, putting together mitigate risk at every
single level test from there and test from there. And you thin slice tests. I think one of the biggest misconceptions
with a lot of agencies are, or a lot of traffic experts is like,
Oh, we’re going to need to go spend two, five, 10, 15, 20 grand to get some data. You should be able to get data pretty
quickly on highly targeted traffic early on. I do understand where
in all a hundred bucks, I do understand we’re
in an algorithmic world, but if you’re at getting zeros
after, you know, you spent 507 bucks, a hundred bucks, he’s done something more.
Something’s wrong. I mean it just is, you know. Cool. Yeah.
So okay, that’s cool. So there’s a lot of great stuff there. You’ve scaled up and moved into
to all kinds of other things. When for the people that have started
a few traffic channels that are working right now and having some level
of success, what’s the big scale? Where do they go from there to, I think the first thing is that you’re
assuming there’s a few traffic channels they’ve already taken. I’d say that usually the lowest hanging
fruit mostly is like we had a couple of guys attend our event that we’re spending
around a 50 to 60 K a day on Facebook and it’s like, okay, well do you have Google analytics and
audience insights set up on Google? Do you have Google’s conversion pixel set
up on your page even though you’re not running traffic there, right? So that you allow Google
just off of retargeting, very minimal spends to
start collecting the, the buyer data so that when you want to
take that buyer data and then let Google go find all those people on a Google
display network and YouTube, it’s there. I think that’s number one. Number two is, are you doing your brand
keyword brand keywords? That’s number one. Number two is
competitive keywords. Number three, then you can go into like the
buyer intent keywords, right? But I’ll tell you like what Josh L at Jay
and his partner Anthony Sandrea taught me that I think gangster like, and
I, that’s a horrible word to use. I never use that word. I guess it’s
cause I’m on a business lunch podcast. You know, my kid used that where I was
like, where are you getting at YouTube? And but what you could do is like Sam
selling a probiotic with these guys do is they’ll go like, I’m
selling a probiotic. Well, they’ll take every review keyword that’s
out there. And how do they find this? Is there an automated way? There’s an automated way to do it or
you just let Google tell you, you know, what’s the automated way the you mean
the automated way? I don’t even know. I can tell you the manual way, which is you type in probiotic into
Google and Google smart search will just show you every single keyword people are
typing. And then we know like review, cost comparison, all those secondary words that people
tag on to a certain type of product is w is buyer intent. Those are high quality,
very, very expensive. Cost per click. Traffic. Yes. So what there’s a tool, I can’t think of it right now. It’s
called like pitch. It’s called pitch box. PITC HBL x.com. Have you ever heard
of this? This is awesome, right? This is this, I can’t believe I’m
sharing on a free podcast. I know. But you could post in your
keyword and, and it’ll, it’ll pop up all the similar keywords
and it’ll pop up every single site that ranks on those keywords plus
the owner of those. And if you, if any of you type in like, say
probiotic supplement review, well the people who are ranking on those
keywords or even buying ads on those keywords, those are usually
fake review sites, right? [inaudible] And those guys
make money off commissions. So usually they’re either selling their
own product isn’t product number one or they’re just selling the highest pain
product, they’re not, they’re not usually, yeah, reviewing the best product, right? Where are they making the most amount
of commissions so you can contact them, find out, Hey, I want to be
at the top of your review. Let’s get on a call or let’s do an email
thread. What does it cost per commit? What do you make them pay per commission
now? Right? And can we pay you more? Right? I mean, if they’re affiliates,
they’re going to say yes. And so like, if you think about traffic and
brand building now as an ecosystem, well those are the, those are very high. Buyer what buyers go to those websites
and you can now buy your way onto those websites, but you’re not even going
money out of pocket. You’re going, you’re just paying them a commission
that’s higher than what they’re currently being made. Right. So that’s really your
numbers know you can afford it then. So going back to like scaling. Yup. A lot of people don’t even do like
some like that’s an advanced strategy, but a lot of people don’t do that. A lot of the other thing about scaling
is what is your micro influencer roadmap look like? Like if I
searched for micro influence, like a micro-influencer, someone in
less than 50,000 fans, followers. Yeah. You know, and you could
pay 50 bucks, 75 bucks, 125 bucks to get them
to open up your product, tell everybody how much they love it.
And the big misconception about this, this is where influencer marketing gets
like little gray areas. Like, okay, well I didn’t make any sales. I sent out
10 packages. They opened it, whatever. I didn’t get sales. Well,
you’re not in all the pros. We’ll tie us Nick Shackleford,
Kao McGuire, Josh sells at Jay. Your job is not to get
them to make you sales. Your job is they’re creating social proof
that then you are retagging reposting. Yeah. Use amplifying. You amplify your paid
media and it’s your job, not theirs to make sales but
for buy ads in their channel. Yeah. And so that’s phase two
of that strategy, right? Yeah. And all the guys will
tell ya that you know, everyone’s enamored with how Josh has
Floyd Mayweather and chocolateL and Gronkowski very strategically paced.
He put himself in the right position, did the right pitch. He’s
just extremely bright. But what he’ll tell you is that the
thousands of micro influencers who he has tagging and posting every single day
that’s happening all the time is really where getting probably more
of their list, right? The, the celebrity is the halo effect
or the shiny object. But granted, find those micro influencers. Is there
any way to do that quickly on a really, really simple cloud HQ,ucloud HQ,
clout C a lot with a case with a seat, C, L C L O U T H q.com.
Okay. How do you use that? I’m very simple. You type in your
keyword like fitness or whatever, and you’ll start seeing you’ll start
seeing people coming up and then what do you do? You can contact them, you’ll see
the rates, contact them and say, Hey, we would you look like your profile
would be great to promote our product? Or can we send you free stuff? Is there any way to measure their
engagement or, Oh yeah, actually, yeah. Thanks for actually
asking that. Yeah. Claudia’s Q actually will show you the
history, the history of their engagement. So if you see like huge spikes and all
of a sudden they got 100,000 followers, but a week ago they had 10,000.
That’s usually a mopey person. Yeah, exactly. And yes, 100%. Great.
And any other tools like that, that help with that? Yeah. It’s
like FameBit is for you too. And then Nick Shackleford shared one
great one today that I can’t think of it, I can’t think it off of my
head, but any of those tools. Now here’s where like but
you’re, you’re really, you’re really smart too on the stuff to
roll. Like where you’re saying get out, get away from the computer and
do certain things. You know, if you go on Instagram, I mean
calm McGuire teaches this as well. So you go under an Instagram, you see people that have the right
lifestyle photos and look and feel of it. Private message them. Yeah. You know, and if they have less
than 5,000 followers, they don’t consider themselves
as influencers. So if
you send them free gear, they’ll do anything for you.
And what do you pay him? You just pay him for you just in the free
year for years where you try to start. Okay. And then usually you’ll
get like, well, I’m 75, 125 to 50. There’s a little bit
of a negotiation there. Okay. And then you dictate the terms.
Don’t tell him exactly what you want. Usually when you tell him what you
want, you want to look at their profile, make sure they’ve done it before
so they’re not like, you know, trying to and just tell them what
keyword. So if I have an organic, a tee shirt line, you know, you
make sure, Hey, this is an organic, the selling proposition here is organic. Make sure you stress that in your 15
second video video posts better than for them. You know, it was really interesting. The good question I mean Nick
Shackleford just shared this like, so he has them go to their first pitch
or their first post is an Instagram stories. He uses UTM codes that he tracks in Google
analytics so that if he picks 10 say influencers, they do their rates,
he’s got his own little budget. I’ll let him share the specifics on that. But but they do track via
UTM codes because here’s
the thing you want to see if I’m going to go find the influencers, I want to see like are there two out
of the 10 that actually have a better response, right. Those are the ones I’ll
S will further the conversation like, Hey, we want to you know, figured out a way of allowing you to
make commissions ongoing and we want to take control over your Instagram and
Facebook accounts and make you a lot of money. Right. While
promoting our brand. Right. Would you buy those accounts
to own them or that’s, that’s something that you would ask? I think most people are looking at just
renting them cause probably for most of those people there I’m sure if they’re
just fan pages but they’re not personal brands that they, that’s possible.
If they’re personal brands, cause I already know where you’re going. You’re thinking you’re going to
start building their, cause they’re, they’re like start bumping up. They
start building their own following. So there’s, there’s something, there’s
a good conversation there. Okay. I’m gonna just ask you one more question
cause I know you’ve got to to, to bolt. Amazon. Do you just do sell
on Amazon? We do. We do. Amazon will always be amplified off
of paid media out of Amazon. Right. so I don’t have any super Ninja tricks. You advertise on Amazon’s
advertising channels. Yes. Yeah. Primarily on our own keywords to make
sure that use all three of the different things they offer to make sure our
competitors are not bidding on, on your words and showing up
ahead of us. That’s one. Right. so mostly keyword based. Cause what we
do, we don’t do much more than that. There are a few other Ninja tricks that
I just can’t share to publicly cause they’re that good. Nice. But what, what I would say is that Amazon is like
any other algorithmic platform that sales and conversion rate and average
transaction size means that Amazon is making more money so that if
you’re going to favor those things, if you’re going to do it. And I, and I think there’s one last
thing I’ll say about this too, is that I really think like, you know, there’s a lot of people
selling greens products. Like let’s just take greens for
like you really and you know, haven’t Jay Abraham at your event?
I think so. Just he’s always here. So but you really got
to ask yourself like, w can we finish the conversation with
we’re the only product that does blank or we are the number one product that does
this or we are like the reason why is your competitive advantage, what’s
your differentiating back? Yeah, we’re the only celebrity backed you know, absolutely greens product cause
there is no other greens pro. I guess that’s when we like to really
to screw up all the whole market, go get a celebrity, right, go get a micro
celebrity, give them equity, you know, nothing out of pocket to deal or pay him. And because now like with Amazon, like you want to have that
differentiator and you know, if you can’t do the
differentiator, I think directors, Pat’s marketing’s always going to
be as true component to what we do. But social celebrity ship is a huge thing. Sexiness, quality of product. I mean I think we’re just in a
very ecosystem driven market. Yeah. So that’s kind of that nice. What
are you reading and, and what, do you love any, any books
that have impacted you
dramatically in the last yeah. You know, I’m, I’m, I’m rereading
Phil Knight’s book. God, so good. So good. It’s so good. And the reason I did is because I just
did a talk on influencer marketing to your group and I just
wanted to go back to like, like what I think most
people don’t realize about
is how long he grinded it out before he actually the hot, like there
was no hockey stick. Yeah. Until like, I think he started the company in 1969.
It wasn’t until like 1983 wasn’t, yeah, he went from broke to work being
worth like a couple billion dollars. That that was kind of, I mean
it was a long, long grind, really inspiring book I think for people
to read little black stretchy pants right after you read that because it
shows you debts chip Wilson’s Lulu lemon journey and reading them side by side
is interesting because they both are tech-based athletic wear companies and
one of them got booted out and is no longer involved in his company and one
of them was involved until he decided not to be. The lessons that are learned by reading
both of those side by side I think are are really big. And they both used
influencers in different ways. And even under armor there’s so many
different businesses that have been built on the exact same platform. So seeing the commonalities and how they
used micro-influencers from athletic coaches to yoga instructors is
very, very educational. Yeah. Awesome. What else have you read that
has impacted you? What else am I reading? Oh gosh, let’s say last couple of
years. Well, I think something that I’m, I mean well I’ll say one thing by
the way. Dinette dinette May’s book, the rise I think, or something. She
was just on here. She was just here. I ran to her. Yeah. And I, and it was the
only book I’ve ever read with my wife. Oh, the rise. Yeah. It’s
really her story of, of, of going through her journey, which I’ll let everybody just kind
of by the book because it’s very, it was really, it was just really amazing how she
went from being on a floor with broke, with $47 a day. And I’m Craig
Collins, her husband, amazing guy. And what they’re doing is just really
amazing. They’re doing great things. They’re not being themselves pretty.
Yeah. I mean, you know, that’s amazing. I think you know the, I think, I think a couple
of things that can, I say, cause I know and I’m wrapping up is I
think the other thing from a male female perspective is my wife and I, my wife
is NOLA and we have seven kids together. Married 14, 15 years, something like that. We won’t play her [inaudible] or
something like that. Depends they roll. Will you please [inaudible] will
believe in the right number? It’ll be, we’ve been married seven
years. But I think, I think there’s a couple things I want
to share with your audience just to wrap up is like, one is like, so we, we
actually, we don’t like, you know, people are like, Oh, is your wife totally
into all this stuff? Whenever like, well, no, but she lives it. And so like one day we stumbled across
like Bernay Brown’s like Amazon special [inaudible]. It was really our Netflix
special. It was really amazing. I thought what I thought was good about
it was it allowed a meta side-by-side listened to like, wow, Bernay Brown’s helmet vuln vulnerability
and how she feels usually, man, I’ll be honest with you. Like
I kinda like, I’m like, Ugh, I’m too tough for that stuff. Right? but I think from an entrepreneurial
perspective, V as a man, anyhow, the longer I’m doing this, the more important my male
relationships are to be around. Good men to strengthen iron
sharpens iron, that whole thing. The other thing I just want to say too
is ecosystem wise like you and I have been friends for what, nine 10 years?
Yeah. Tony G’s across the room. We’ve been friends for what,
seven, eight, nine years. And I will tell everybody that like
you know my first book was called time collapsing. Like the new artist
speed. Plenty of our money per button. Meaning it is a really good book. It’s a
great book. I gave it to my kids. Yeah, like time collapsing and speeding
up your journey. But you know, now seven years after writing that book, I think my next is going to be about
patients wins the day about like that dichotomy of life of having both
ends of it. And in the patient side, I just want to tell everyone like I’m, I’m always humbled by the people that
I became friends with say 10 1213 years ago and I was nice to them. And now here we are 14 years later and I
need stuff that only they have and they without even questioning, come
and support me. It’s amazing. And so I think what I want to
say is like, money’s important. Doing being successful is important.
But I’m Perry Belcher posted like, Hey, what’s one bit of advice you’d give?
And in our household to our kids, it’s be nice to everybody along
the way, you know, as you know, expectation dreams. Absolutely. And cause
that’s the F comes back full circle. Yeah. I believe it 100%. And I love what you guys are doing and
I love this podcast. So please I’ll, I’ll share all these, all these
you know, and I, everyone, if they’ve never listened to that,
should go back and listen to them, all of them, cause they just amazing. So what are the two things that were so
specific that you couldn’t share right now? Now I’m not gonna ask
you for that. I mean, I did, but I’m not really
expecting you to answer. So for people who want to find out more
about all the different things usually gave the answer. I just didn’t tell what media is that
brute force your way to say up brute force sales up in Amazon will trick
the engine to rank you faster. That gave the answer but I
didn’t tell them how to do it. So they have to reverse engineer
that or come to your thing. Yeah. Or come to my thing. How do they get ahold of you and all
the places that come to ed O’Keefe? Live.Com we have a, just for
the ed O’Keefe, E D. Okay. E F as in Frank, E L I V E.
Dot com. Okay. And we have our, we, we are running intensives
every eight or 10 weeks. I’m the one that you just did was called
a scaling with supplements super foods and nutrition products online. Great.
Okay, cool. And it was awesome. It’s very, very specific. What a lot of people who don’t have
supplements or products don’t know is that if they added products they’d probably
double or triple their net profit. Right. Because their customers want products. So why let them go to Amazon
and buy other people’s products, like sell products? You know? I agree. So thank you so much for
coming in for the show. I really appreciate you
being here. It’s awesome. Thanks. [inaudible].

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