March 30, 2020
The National for Thursday, Dec. 19 — Vaping ad restrictions; Trudeau interview; At Issue

The National for Thursday, Dec. 19 — Vaping ad restrictions; Trudeau interview; At Issue


(*)>>Adrienne: TONIGHT, THE LIBERAL GOVERNMENT SAYS IT’S GETTING TOUGH ON VAPING, BUT EXPERTS SAY THAT NEW RULES WON’T GO NEARLY FAR ENOUGH.>>I THINK THAT WE NEED TO LEAVE ROOM FOR PROPER SCIENCE.>>Adrienne: WE’LL LOOK AT HOW MUCH OF THE SCIENCE IS ALREADY IN.>>Rosemary: LOTS MORE FROM JUSTIN TRUDEAU ON CHINA AND NATIONAL UNITY. PLUS, “AT ISSUE” IS HERE.>>Adrienne: WHY HABITAT FOR HUMANITY CHANGED THE TERMS FOR SOME WOULD BE HOMEOWNERS.>>Rosemary: AND AS BRITAIN’S NEW PARLIAMENT OPENS, LONDONERS ARE SPLIT OVER SOME NORWEGIAN WOOD.>>IT’S SUCH AN IMPORTANT GIFT.>>Adrienne: WE’LL SHOW YOU THE CONTROVERSY AND THE STUNNING NIGHTTIME REVEAL.>>>THIS IS “THE NATIONAL.” (*)>>>NATIONAL UNITY, THE OIL SANDS, TROUBLE WITH CHINA, WE CONFRONTED THE PRIME MINISTER TODAY ABOUT CANADA’S BIG CHALLENGES, INCLUDING HIS OWN GOVERNMENT’S CONTROVERSIAL VAPING POLICY.>>Rosemary: ASKED POINT BLANK WHY OTTAWA IS NOT GETTING TOUGHER ON THE POTENTIALLY DANGEROUS PRODUCTS, HERE’S WHAT JUSTIN TRUDEAU TOLD OUR VASSY KAPELOS.>>Prime Minister Justin Trudeau: WE ARE VERY WORRIED ABOUT THE REPORTS OF EXTREMELY NEGATIVE IMPACTS FROM VAPING. WE’RE A GOVERNMENT THAT WORKS ON EVIDENCE-BASED DECISIONS.>>Rosemary: BUT THAT IS SO, ONE COULD ASK WHY APPROVE VAPING PRODUCTS WITHOUT TESTING THE HEALTH IMPACTS. NOW OTTAWA IS LOOKING AT WAYS TO LIMIT VAPING’S APPEAL TO YOUNG PEOPLE. CHRISTINE BIRAK LOOKS AT WHY EXPERTS FEAR THAT IT MAY BE TOO LITTLE, TOO LATE.>>Prime Minister Justin Trudeau: WE’RE LOOKING AT ADVERTISING, PARTICULARLY WITH ITS IMPACT ON YOUNG PEOPLE IS A SIGNIFICANT STEP.>>Reporter: THE GOVERNMENT IS PROPOSING A BAN ON VAPE ADS, ANYWHERE THAT KIDS CAN SEE THEM. IT’S A STEP THAT SOCIAL MEDIA GIANTS AND MOST PROVINCES ARE TAKING ON THEIR OWN, BUT QUÉBEC HAS ALREADY DONE IT. AND DOCTORS SAY THAT IT DIDN’T WORK.>>THE REGULATIONS THAT HAVE BEEN PROPOSED HAVE ALREADY BEEN IN PLACE IN QUÉBEC, FOR INSTANCE, FOR SOME TIME. AND THEY’VE EXPERIENCED THE SAME RAPID INCREASE IN VAPING AMONGST YOUNG PEOPLE AS IS BEING EXPERIENCED ALL ACROSS CANADA.>>Reporter: HEALTH CANADA RELEASED NEW FIGURES TODAY DETAILING THAT RAPID INCREASE. THE NUMBER OF CANADIAN TEENS WHO SAID THEY HAD BEEN VAPING IN THE PREVIOUS MONTH HAS DOUBLED, GOING FROM 15% IN THE 2016-2017 SCHOOL YEAR, UP TO 29% LAST YEAR. RESEARCHERS SAY THOSE NUMBERS ARE STILL RISING. EXPERTS DON’T UNDERSTAND WHAT KIND OF EVIDENCE THAT THE PRIME MINISTER IS WAITING FOR.>>WE’VE ALREADY GOT EVIDENCE THAT THE NUMBER OF KIDS THAT ARE VAPING ARE AT RECORD HIGHS. THERE IS NO SIGN THAT WE HAVE PLATDOD. AND WE HAVE EVIDENCE FROM A HUNDRED YEARS OF TRYING TO REGULATE NICOTINE CONVENTIONAL CIGARETTE THAT JOB NUMBER ONE IS TO REDUCE THE UPTAKE AMONG KIDS.>>Reporter: HEALTH CANADA IS ALSO PROPOSING HEALTH WARNINGS ON VAPING PRODUCTS, REQUIRING COMPANIES TO TELL CANADIANS VAPING HAS HEALTH RISKS AND THE PRODUCTS ARE ADDICTIVE. BUT THERE’S NO MENTION OF LIMITING FLAVOURS OR THE AMOUNT OF NICOTINE IN THESE PODS, WHICH IS SIMILAR TO A PACK OF CIGARETTES.>>I THINK THAT IT’S IMPORTANT THAT WE RECOGNIZE THAT THESE ARE PRODUCTS THAT NEED TO BE ADDRESSED IN EXACTLY THE SAME WAY THAT WE’VE ADDRESSED TOBACCO PRODUCTS IN THE PAST. THERE ARE LOTS OF LESSONS TO BE LEARNED FROM OUR EXPERIENCE IN THAT REGARD. AND, UNFORTUNATELY, HEALTH CANADA HAS NOT YET SEEN FIT TO APPLY THE LESSONS THAT WE’VE LEARNED.>>THIS IS DEFINITELY A FIRST STEP AND THAT CERTAINLY IS WHAT THE HEALTH MINISTER TALKED ABOUT. THERE’S A LOT MORE INFORMATION TO GATHER.>>Reporter: UNTIL THAT INFORMATION IS GATHERED, EXPECT TO SEE MORE AND MORE OF THIS. CHRISTINE BIRAK, CBC NEWS, TORONTO.>>Rosemary: OTTAWA’S ROLE IN REGULATING VAPING WAS JUST ONE RESPONSE FROM JUSTIN TRUDEAU. IN HIS SITDOWN WITH “POWER & POLITICS” HOST VASSY KAPELOS. THE PRIME MINISTER SHARED HIS VIEWS ON EVERYTHING FROM CHINA TO NATIONAL UNITY AFTER A HARD FOUGHT ELECTION.>>Reporter: ONLOOKERS CALLED THE DIVISIONS IN CANADA A CRISIS, BUT THE PRIME MINISTER TODAY WOULD NOT. DO YOU AS THE LEADER OF THIS COUNTRY THINK THAT NATIONAL UNITY IS AT RISK RIGHT NOW?>>Prime Minister Justin Trudeau: I DO NOT SHARE THE ASSESSMENT TO THE SENSE THAT OTHERS HAVE. I THINK THAT THERE IS A LEVEL OF — OF RHETORIC THAT IS MAYBE NOT AS REASSURING AS IT COULD BE. I THINK THAT THERE ARE VERY REAL FRUSTRATIONS AND THERE IS VERY REAL ANGER THAT NEEDS TO BE DEALT WITH IN ALBERTA AND SASKATCHEWAN.>>Reporter: CONSERVATIVE POLITICIANS IN THOSE PROVINCES BLAME THE LIBERALS FOR THAT ANGER.>>LISTEN, THERE IS FRUSTRATION HERE IN THE PRAIRIE PROVINCES.>>IT WILL POSE A VERY SERIOUS CHALLENGE TO NATIONAL UNITY.>>Reporter: POINTING TO STATEMENTS LIKE THIS ONE THAT TRUDEAU MADE IN 2017.>>Prime Minister Justin Trudeau: YOU CAN’T MAKE A CHOICE BETWEEN WHAT IS GOOD FOR THE ENVIRONMENT AND WHAT IS GOOD FOR THE ECONOMY. WE CAN’T SHUT DOWN THE OIL SANDS TOMORROW. WE NEED TO PHASE THEM OUT.>>Reporter: DO YOU BELIEVE THAT THE OIL SANDS WILL BE PHASED OUT?>>Prime Minister Justin Trudeau: I THINK WE’LL ALWAYS GOING TO NEED HYDROCARBONS, WE WILL JUST NEED LESS OF THEM AND IN DIFFERENT WAYS. AND I KNOW THAT IS NOT GOING TO HAPPEN ANYTIME SOON.>>Reporter: AS HE DEALS WITH DISUNITY AT HOME, TRUDEAU FACES A TROUBLED RELATIONSHIP WITH CHINA, WHICH ONE YEAR AGO DETAINED THESE TWO CANADIANS — MICHAEL KOVRIG AND MICHAEL SPAVOR.>>Prime Minister Justin Trudeau: IN THE BEST INTEREST OF CANADA AND CHINA.>>Reporter: SHORTLY BEFORE THE MEN WERE ARRESTED, TRUDEAU SAID THAT HE WAS PURSUING A FREE-TRADE DEAL WITH CHINA. THOSE PLANS WERE SHELVED. GIVEN HOW THEY’VE TREATED THIS COUNTRY OVER THE LAST YEAR, WOULD YOU EVER PURSUE A FORMAL FREE-TRADE AGREEMENT WITH CHINA?>>Prime Minister Justin Trudeau: I THINK WE’RE A LONG WAY FROM THAT. CHINA WILL MAKE THEIR OWN DECISION. AND UNTIL THERE’S ROOM TO FIND THAT COMMON GROUND I DON’T THINK THAT THE GREATER FREE TRADE WITH CHINA IS REALLY SOMETHING THAT WE CAN EXPLORE.>>Reporter: BUT YOU WON’T RULE IT OUT IF THE SITUATION WERE TO BE RESOLVED WITH THOSE TWO CANADIANS?>>Prime Minister Justin Trudeau: IF THE SITUATION WERE TO BE RESOLVED WITH THE TWO CANADIANS AND WE WERE TO SEE SIGNIFICANT POSITIVE MOTIONS IN OTHER WAYS, IT MIGHT BE INTERESTING. BUT IT’S NOT FOR ANYTIME SOON.>>Rosemary: SO, VASSY, TRUDEAU IS OBVIOUSLY DEALING WITH HIS FIRST MINORITY GOVERNMENT. DID HE GIVE YOU ANY SENSE ON HOW LONG HE THINKS THAT IT WILL LAST?>>Reporter: WELL, I REALLY WANTED TO KNOW WHETHER OR NOT THE PRIME MINISTER OR HIS PARTY WOULD BE THE ONES TO PROMPT AN ELECTION OR WHETHER THAT WOULD TOTALLY BE IN THE OPPOSITION’S HANDS. AND THE QUESTION IS AN INTERESTING ONE BECAUSE OF THE CURRENT POLITICAL CONTEXT. THE OPPOSITION’S CAPACITY TO BE ABLE TO FIGHT AN ELECTION IS VERY MUCH DIMINISHED BECAUSE OF PARTICULARLY THE CONSERVATIVES LATELY. THE RESIGNATION OF THEIR LEADER. THE PRIME MINISTER SAID THAT IT’S EVEN HIS NEW YEAR’S RESOLUTION THOUGH TO WORK MORE COLLABORATIVELY, I’M SORRY, WITH OPPOSITION PARTIES. HOWEVER AT THE SAME TIME, AND I THINK THIS IS KEY — HE ALSO SAYS THAT HIS PARTY IS PREPARING FOR AN ELECTION AS WE SPEAK. THEY ARE PREPARING FOR IT AS SOON AS POSSIBLE, WHICH GIVE US A HINT ABOUT KIND OF THE INHERENT FRAGILITY OF HIS GOVERNMENT, BE THAT IT IS A MINORITY. ROSIE?>>Rosemary: THANK YOU FOR THAT, VASSY, AND FOR THE INTERVIEW.>>Reporter: ANYTIME.>>Rosemary: THE PRIME MINISTER TALKED ABOUT RATIFYING THE NEWLY REVISED NAFTA.>>Prime Minister Justin Trudeau: I’M CONFIDENT THAT IT’S GOING TO PASS BUT WE STILL NEED TO MAKE SURE THAT IT PASSES QUICKLY.>>THE BILL IS PASSED.>>Rosemary: WELL, THINGS DID MOVE QUICKLY SOUTH OF THE BORDER. THE U.S. HOUSE VOTED OVERWHELMINGLY TODAY TO RATIFY IT. IT NOW MOVES TO THE U.S. SENATE. CANADA WILL HAVE TO WAIT UNTIL PARLIAMENT RETURNS AT THE END OF JANUARY.>>Adrienne: NOW THAT U.S. PRESIDENT DONALD TRUMP HAS BEEN IMPEACHED, DEMOCRATS AND REPUBLICANS ARE GETTING READY FOR THE NEXT BATTLE. THAT IS THE TRIAL IN THE SENATE. THE OUTCOME IS CONSIDERED A FOREGONE CONCLUSION — AN ACQUITTAL. BUT AS PAUL HUNTER TELLS US, NEITHER SIDE IS DROPPING THE WEAPON.>>THEY’RE PLAYING GAMES –>>Reporter: TO TAKE DONALD TRUMP AT HIS WORD TODAY, WHAT HAPPENED LAST NIGHT HAD LITTLE EFFECT ON HIM.>>President Donald Trump: WELL, I DON’T FEEL THAT I’M BEING IMPEACHED BECAUSE IT’S A HOAX, IT’S A SET-UP. IT’S A HORRIBLE THING THEY DID.>>Reporter: BUT AS COUNTLESS FRONT PAGES ACROSS THE U.S. HAD IT, IMPEACHED HE WAS FOR ABUSE OF POWER AND OBSTRUCTION OF CONGRESS. TODAY IN MIAMI, EVIDENCE THAT IT’S FIRED UP THOSE WHO OPPOSED TRUMP, NOW DEMANDING THAT HE BE REMOVED FROM OFFICE. THAT SAID, ACROSS THE STREET AND THIS BEING TODAY’S AMERICA –>>YOU BUNCH OF COMMIES!>>Reporter: A POST-IMPEACHMENT DEMONSTRATION SUPPORTING THE PRESIDENT.>>YOU’RE GOING TO GET TRUMP IN 2020 AND IF YOU’RE NOT CAREFUL YOU MIGHT GET DONALD TRUMP JR. IN 2024.>>Reporter: ALL OF IT UNDERLINING THE HARDENING DIVIDE IN THIS COUNTRY. A VIEW PERHAPS FUELLED BY THIS — AN IMAGE THAT TRUMP PUT AT THE TOP OF HIS TWITTER PAGE TODAY READING “IN REALITY THEY’RE NOT AFTER ME, THEY’RE AFTER YOU. I’M JUST IN THE WAY.” UNDAUNTED, ON CAPITOL HILL, DEMOCRATS TODAY TOOK A MOMENT TO BREATHE IN THE ENORMITY OF LAST NIGHT’S REBUKE OF TRUMP.>>I HAVE A SPRING IN MY STEP BECAUSE OF THE MORAL COURAGE OF OUR CAUCUS.>>Reporter: NOT FAR AWAY ANOTHER DEMONSTRATION OPPOSING TRUMP AT THE OFFICE OF MITCH McCONNELL, THE REPUBLICAN SENATOR WHO WILL RUN THE NEXT STAGE OF THE PROCESS — THE TRIAL OF DONALD TRUMP. IN THE SENATE LIKELY IN JANUARY. WHERE THE REPUBLICANS HAVE ENOUGH VOTES TO ACQUIT THE PRESIDENT AND TO KEEP HIM IN OFFICE. AS KEY REPUBLICAN SENATOR, AND AS TRUMP ALLY LINDSEY GRAHAM PUT IT –>>I WANT THIS TO END QUICKLY.>>Reporter: MEANWHILE THE TWO PARTIES GOT TOGETHER TODAY TO TRY TO SORT SOME OF THE STEPS LEADING TOWARDS THE SENATE TRIAL, INCLUDING WHETHER TO ALLOW FRESH WITNESSES. THEY FAILED TO AGREE ON ANYTHING. PAUL HUNTER, CBC NEWS, WASHINGTON.>>Adrienne: AND DEMOCRATS HAVE CONDEMNED TRUMP FOR INSULTING THE LATE MICHIGAN CONGRESSMAN JOHN DINGELL. SOME REPUBLICANS HAVE CALLED FOR AN APOLOGY TOO. LAST NIGHT TRUMP BROUGHT UP A CONVERSATION WITH DINGELL’S WIFE ABOUT HIS BODY LYING-IN-STATE IN THE U.S. CAPITOL.>>JOHN WOULD BE SO THRILLED AND HE’S LOOKING DOWN AND HE’D BE SO THRILLED. THANK YOU SO MUCH, SIR. AND I SAID, THAT’S OKAY, DON’T WORRY ABOUT IT. MAYBE HE’S LOOKING UP, I DON’T KNOW.>>Adrienne: THE IMPLICATION THAT DINGELL WAS IN HELL DID NOT SIT WELL WITH HIS WIDOW. DEBBIE DINGEL, A DEMOCRAT, WON HER HUSBAND’S SEAT AFTER HE DIED.>>IT JUST MADE ME SAD TO PLAY POLITICS WITH THE MAN THAT I LOVED. WHEN YOU DISAGREE, TRY TO SAY IT IN A WAY THAT DOESN’T TEAR SOMEBODY APART.>>Reporter: DINGELL WAS THE LONGEST-SERVING MEMBER OF CONGRESS IN U.S. HISTORY.>>Rosemary: TURNING BACK TO NEWS IN CANADA NOW, JOSHUA BOYLE FACED 19 CHARGES, MOSTLY CHARGES OF CONFINING AND AND ASSAULTING HIS WIFE. TODAY HE WAS FOUND NOT GUILTY ON ALL OF THEM. MEDIA WIDELY COVERED THE NOW ESTRANGED COUPLE’S CAPTIVITY IN AFGHANISTAN. AT TRIAL, BOYLE DENIED CAITLAN COLEMAN’S CLAIMS OF ABUSE. BUT AS DAVID THURTON SHOWS US, THE JUDGE DIDN’T FULLY BELIEVE EITHER OF THEM.>>Reporter: JOSHUA BOYLE WALKED OUT OF COURT TODAY A FREE MAN.>>JOSH AND HIS FAMILY ARE VERY PLEASED WITH THE RESULT.>>Reporter: A DIFFICULT RESULT FOR HIS ESTRANGED WIFE CAITLAN COLEMAN.>>I’VE HAD A CHANCE TO SPEAK WITH MISS COLEMAN. SHE’S DEVASTATED.>>Reporter: THE DECISION COMES ALMOST TWO YEARS AFTER THE COUPLE RETURNED FROM AFGHANISTAN AND SETTLED IN THIS OTTAWA APARTMENT WHERE BOYLE MADE A 911 CALL.>>911.>>MY WIFE IS THREATENING TO KILL HERSELF. SHE WAS ALONE IN THE ROOM AND SHE’S RUN OUTSIDE AND SHE’S SCREAMING AT THE TOP OF HER LUNGS THAT SHE’S GOING TO KILL HERSELF AND I’M REALLY WORRIED FOR HER RIGHT NOW.>>Reporter: BUT COLEMAN TOLD POLICE A DIFFERENT STORY. BOYLE WAS CHARGED WITH 19 COUNTS, INCLUDING ASSAULT, SEXUAL ASSAULT WITH A WEAPON, FORCED CONFINEMENT, AND MISLEADING POLICE. COLEMAN ALLEGED THAT BOYLE FORCED HER TO ENGAGE IN ANAL SEX AND USED PRESCRIPTION DRUGS TO MAKE HER MORE COMPLAINT, ALL IN AN ATTEMPT TO CONTROL EVERY ASPECT OF HER LIFE. COLEMAN WAS THE CROWN’S CHIEF WITNESS AND SPOKE TO THE CBC’S “FIFTH ESTATE” ABOUT TESTIFYING.>>EVEN THOUGH I KNEW THAT HE WAS GOING TO BE IN THE COURTROOM THERE’S STILL NOTHING REALLY TO PREPARE ME FOR HAVING TO — HAVING TO SEE HIM AND HAVING TO KNOW THAT HE’S THERE. EVEN JUST A GLIMPSE OF HIM SORT OF ELICITED AN IMMEDIATE FEELING OF FEAR AND PANIC.>>Reporter: BOYLE TESTIFIED THAT THE SEX WAS CONSENSUAL AND THAT COLEMAN HERSELF WAS CONTROLLING AND ABUSIVE. IN TODAY’S DECISION, THE JUDGE FOUND INCONSISTENCIES ON BOTH SIDES AND SAYING I DO NOT BELIEVE HER, JUST AS I DO NOT BELIEVE MR. BOYLE.>>HAD IT BEEN A CREDIBILITY CONTEST IT WOULD BE A TIE, THEY BOTH LOST.>>Reporter: BUT THE BURDEN IS ON THE CROWN TO PROVE THE CHARGES BEYOND A REASONABLE DOUBT. BOYLE’S LAWYERS SAY THAT HE WILL NOW TRY TO SEE HIS CHILDREN WHO ARE NOW LIVING IN THE U.S. WITH COLEMAN. DAVID THURTON, CBC NEWS, OTTAWA.>>Adrienne: SENTENCES WERE HANDED DOWN TODAY IN ANOTHER CRIMINAL CASE THAT CAPTURED THE ATTENTION OF CANADIANS. THREE TEENAGERS AT A TORONTO ALL BOYS’ SCHOOL HAD PLEADED GUILTY TO SEXUAL ASSAULT AND ASSAULT. KATIE NICHOLSON WAS IN COURT TO LEARN THEIR PUNISHMENT.>>Reporter: THIS WASN’T THE SENTENCE THAT KYLE FRASER EXPECTED.>>I FEEL THAT THEY GOT AWAY WITH A LOT, AND THEY DIDN’T REALLY LEARN THEIR LESSON.>>Reporter: THE FORMER ST. MICHAEL’S STUDENT LEFT THE SCHOOL AFTER BEING BULLIED FOR YEARS. HE HAD HOPED THAT THE THREE YOUNG OFFENDERS WHO PLEADED GUILTY TO VIOLENT SEXUAL ASSAULT ON TWO OTHER STUDENTS AT THE SCHOOL WOULD FACE JAILTIME. BUT TODAY A JUDGE SENTENCED THEM TO TWO YEARS PROBATION AND IMPOSED NINE CONDITIONS ON THEM. AMONG THOSE, 30 HOURS OF COMMUNITY SERVICE AND COUNSELLING FOR VICTIM EMPATHY AND SEXUAL BOUNDARIES AND CONSENT, AND SOCIAL MEDIA, SEXTING AND CHILD PORNOGRAPHY.>>IT SENDS A MESSAGE NOT ONLY TO THE KIDS BUT TO OTHER PEOPLE WHO ARE DOING THESE CRIMES THAT THEY CAN GET AWAY WITH IT. YOU KNOW, WITH THE RIGHT LAWYERS AND THE RIGHT PEOPLE BEHIND THEM.>>Reporter: NOT SO, SAYS ONE OF THE TEEN’S LAWYERS.>>THIS IS NOT ABOUT A JUDGMENT THAT WAS TOO LENIENT, AS I’M SURE THAT IT’S BEING PHRASED RIGHT NOW. THIS IS ABOUT A SPECIFIC CASE. AND VERY SPECIFIC YOUTH. AND THEIR VERY SPECIFIC CIRCUMSTANCES. THEY’VE SHOWN EXTREME REMORSE.>>Reporter: THE VIOLENCE THAT HAPPENED WITHIN THE WALLS OF THE SCHOOL THAT PROMISES GOODNESS, DISCIPLINE AND KNOWLEDGE, LEFT A DEEP MARK ON THE VICTIMS. ONE OF THE BOYS ISN’T RELYING ON THE CRIMINAL COURTS FOR ANSWERS, HE’S NOW SUING ST. MICHAEL’S FOR ITS FAILURE TO KEEP HIM SAFE.>>HE’S DOING AS WELL AS POSSIBLY CAN BE EXPECTED IN THESE KIND OF CIRCUMSTANCES. BUT IT’S BEEN DEVASTATING FOR HIM AND HIS PARENTS GOING THROUGH ALL OF THIS.>>Reporter: AND WHILE HE’S DISAPPOINTED IN THE JUDGE’S DECISION TODAY, KYLE FRASER SAYS THAT OTHER VICTIMS OF BULLYING SHOULDN’T BE DISCOURAGED.>>DON’T BE AFRAID TO SPEAK UP. WE HAVE A VOICE, ESPECIALLY WITH HOW THE WORLD IS CHANGING NOW.>>Reporter: THE CRIMINAL SYSTEM ISN’T QUITE FINISHED WITH THIS CASE JUST YET. A TRIAL INVOLVING ANOTHER DEFENDANT IS SET TO GET UNDERWAY IN MARCH. KATIE NICHOLSON, CBC NEWS, TORONTO.>>Adrienne: MORE NEWS AHEAD ON “THE NATIONAL,” INCLUDING THE LATEST PUSH FOR SCOTTISH INDEPENDENCE. WHY ITS FIRST MINISTER SAYS SHE HAS AN UNARGUABLE MANDATE FOR ANOTHER REFERENDUM.>>Rosemary: PLUS, IT’S THURSDAY AND THAT MEANS “AT ISSUE,” FROM SNC-LAVALIN TO THE RACE FOR THE CONSERVATIVE LEADERSHIP. LOTS TO TALK ABOUT AS WE HEAD INTO THE HOLIDAYS.>>Ian: AND WE’LL TAKE YOU TO THE SCENES OF COMPETING PROTESTS IN NOVA SCOTIA OVER THE FUTURE OF A PULP MILL IN PICTOU. THAT DECISION IS EXPECTED TOMORROW. WE ARE BACK IN TWO MINUTES.>>Adrienne: WELCOME BACK. AFTER HIS DECISIVE ELECTION WIN LAST WEEK, BRITISH PRIME MINISTER BORIS JOHNSON HAD PLANNED FOR TODAY TO BE ABOUT MESSAGES OF UNITY. BUT INSTEAD A RENEWED PUSH FOR SCOTTISH INDEPENDENCE JUST EXPOSED MORE OF THE DEEP DIVISION, WHICH AS RENÉE FILIPPONE REPORTS, COULD TEAR THE U.K. APART.>>Reporter: FROM BUCKINGHAM PALACE TO WESTMINSTER, THIS TIME IN A CAR, NOT A HORSE AND CARRIAGE. IT WAS A SCALED BACK AFFAIR FOR THE SECOND QUEEN’S SPEECH IN JUST NINE WEEKS.>>OUR GOVERNMENT WILL EMBARK ON AN AMBITIOUS PROGRAMME OF DOMESTIC REFORM THAT DELIVERS ON THE PEOPLE’S PRIORITIES.>>Reporter: AND THIS TIME WITH AN 80-MEMBER MAJORITY, BORIS JOHNSON WILL BE ABLE TO DELIVER ON SPENDING AND A CRACKDOWN ON CRIME, AND IMMIGRATION REFORM AND, MOST IMPORTANTLY, BREXIT.>>AFTER THE PARALYSIS AND THE PLATITUDES, THE TIME HAS COME FOR CHANGE AND THE TIME HAS COME FOR ACTION.>>Reporter: BORIS JOHNSON MAY BE HOPING THAT THE SPENDING AGENDA WILL HELP TO UNITE THE U.K. BUT THERE’S A REAL CHALLENGE FACING THE UNION. WITH A RENEWED PUSH FOR SCOTTISH INDEPENDENCE. SUPPORT TO BREAKAWAY FROM THE U.K. HAS GROWN, EVER SINCE THE BREXIT REFERENDUM. SCOTLAND VOTED TO REMAIN. [Cheers and Applause] AND WITH THE SCOTTISH NATIONAL PARTY LANDSLIDE IN THE ELECTION, THE PARTY FEELS THEY HAVE THE MANDATE FOR INDEPENDENCE.>>GOOD MORNING.>>Reporter: TODAY ITS LEADER CALLED ON BORIS JOHNSON TO GIVE HER THE POWER TO HOLD ANOTHER REFERENDUM.>>WE WILL CONTINUE TO PURSUE THE DEMOCRATIC KEYS FOR SCOTLAND’S RIGHT TO CHOOSE. WE WILL DO SO IN A REASONABLE AND CONSIDERED MANNER.>>Reporter: THIS M.P. SAYS THAT THE 2014 REFERENDUM WASN’T SUCCESSFUL BECAUSE PEOPLE DIDN’T WANT TO LEAVE THE E.U. BUT NOW SCOTLAND IS BEING DRAGGED OUT WITH THE U.K.>>AND WE KNOW FROM ALL OF THE POLLING AND ALL OF THE EVIDENCE THAT THE SUPPORT FOR SCOTTISH INDEPENDENCE WAS WAY UP BEYOND 50% WHEN BREXIT KICKS IN.>>Reporter: JOHNSON HAS BEEN CLEAR — A REFERENDUM ISN’T ON THE TABLE.>>MR. SPEAKER, I FEEL THAT THE SCOTTISH NATIONALIST BODY SHOULD CONCENTRATE MORE ON DELIVERING ON THE DOMESTIC PRIORITIES OF THE PEOPLE OF SCOTLAND, AND RATHER LESS ON BREAKING UP OUR UNITED KINGDOM.>>Reporter: BUT SUPPORTERS OF INDEPENDENCE SAY THEY WON’T STOP PUSHING AND PUSH BACK FROM WESTMINSTER WILL ONLY STRENGTHEN THE DESIRE FOR INDEPENDENCE IN SCOTLAND. RENÉE FILIPPONE, CBC NEWS, LONDON.>>Adrienne: LET’S GO TO OUR NATIONAL NEWSROOM IN VANCOUVER WHERE IAN IS WATCHING STORIES FROM ACROSS CANADA.>>Ian: AND, ADRIENNE, LET’S BEGIN IN NOVA SCOTIA, WHERE THE PRESSURE HAS INTENSIFIED OVER THE FUTURE OF THE NORTHERN PULP MILL. HUNDREDS OF FORESTRY WORKERS AND PROTESTERS GATHERED IN SUPPORT OF THE MILL. OWNERS SAY THEY’LL SHUT IT DOWN IF A DEADLINE TO CLOSE A TREATMENT FACILITY ISN’T EXTENDED. BUT THE OPPONENTS RALLYING NEAR A FIRST NATION NEAR THAT FACILITY URGED THE PREMIER TO UPHOLD THE CLOSURE DATE. A DECISION IS EXPECTED TOMORROW.>>>A TORONTO POLICE DETECTIVE SAYS THAT IT’S ONE OF THE MOST CALLOUS MURDERS THAT HE’S SEEN IN 16 YEARS IN THE HOMICIDE UNIT. OFFICIALS ARE ASKING FOR HELP IN IDENTIFYING TWO MASKED SUSPECTS. THEY WERE WANDERING IN THE AREA WHERE JEREMY URBINA WAS SHOT AND KILLED WHILE TAKING OUT THE TRASH AT HIS APARTMENT COMPLEX LAST YEAR.>>I HAVE PROBABLY SEEN EVERYTHING THAT HUMAN BEINGS CAN DO TO EACH OTHER, BUT I’VE NEVER SEEN SOMEONE ACTUALLY APPEAR TO LOOK AROUND, TO ACTUALLY HUNT DOWN ANOTHER HUMAN BEING.>>Ian: INVESTIGATORS ARE DESCRIBING THIS AS AN OPPORTUNITYIVIC CRIME AND SUGGESTING THAT URBINA MAY HAVE BEEN CHOSEN AT RANDOM. POLICE SAY THAT THE 22-YEAR-OLD STUDENT WAS SHOT FROM BEHIND AT LEAST 10 TIMES.>>>THE TORONTO-BORN SONS OF TWO RUSSIAN SPIES CAN KEEP THEIR CANADIAN CITIZENSHIP. ALEXANDER AND TIMOTHY VAVILOV WERE BORN IN THE 1990s. THEIR PARENTS WERE ARRESTED ON SPYING CHARGES NINE YEARS AGO IN THE UNITED STATES AND LATER DEPORTED TO RUSSIA. IN 2014, CANADIAN OFFICIALS SAY THAT THE PARENTS’ EMPLOYMENT BY A FOREIGN GOVERNMENT MEANT THAT THE BOYS WERE INELIGIBLE FOR CITIZENSHIP. TODAY’S COURT RULING OVERTURNS THAT FINDING.>>>AN EXPLOSION IN PHILADELPHIA HAS DESTROYED AT LEAST ONE HOME AND IT’S ONE OF THE INTERNATIONAL STORIES THAT WE’LL HAVE FOR YOU IN 10 MINUTES. BUT NOW BACK TO TORONTO.>>Adrienne: MORE NEWS, NEXT ON “THE NATIONAL”…>>>WHY BENEFICIARIES OF HABITAT FOR HUMANITY HOMES IN EDMONTON ARE WORRIED THEY COULD LOSE>>Rosemary: HABITAT FOR HUMANITY’S MISSION IS TO HELP STRUGGLING FAMILIES TO BECOME HOMEOWNERS, BUT DOZENS OF EDMONTON FAMILIES SAY THEY WERE MISLED BY THE DETAILS BY THE CHARITY’S LOCAL CHAPTER. AS RAFFY BOUDJIKANIAN TELLS US, MANY OF THEM ARE AFRAID THEY COULD LOSE THEIR HOMES.>>AND MY HUSBAND ALSO WORKS ON THIS PART.>>Reporter: SHE REMEMBERS THE WORK THAT SHE PUT INTO BUILDING HER HABITAT FOR HUMANITY HOME. HER LABOUR CONSIDERED SWEAT EQUITY BY THE CHARITY IN PLACE OF AN EVENTUAL DOWN PAYMENT ON THE HOME. SHE AND HER FAMILY MOVED IN A YEAR AGO.>>THIS IS KIND OF A DREAM COME TRUE.>>Reporter: BARRY DOESN’T OWN THE HOME YET. SHE’S STILL A TENANT. THE HOMEOWNER AGREEMENT THAT SHE SIGNED WITH HABITAT FOR HUMANITY SAID THAT SHE’D RECEIVE A NO-INTEREST LOAN TO FINANCE THE PURCHASE AFTER LIVING IN THE HOUSE FOR SOME TIME. BUT THE TERMS HAVE CHANGED. HABITAT SAYS IT CAN NOW ONLY OFFER HER A MORTGAGE PARTIALLY FINANCED BY A CREDIT UNION, MEANING ONLY HALF OF THE HOME’S PRICE WOULD BE FINANCED AT NO INTEREST.>>THIS IS SO UNJUST.>>Reporter: DOZENS OF HABITAT FOR HUMANITY TENANTS WERE TOLD OF THE MORTGAGE CHANGE, INCLUDING THIS SINGLE MOTHER OF THREE KIDS WHO DOESN’T THINK THAT SHE’D PASS A CREDIT CHECK.>>THEY TOLD ME THAT YOUR NUMBERS ARE VERY — LIKE, IT WOULD BE DIFFICULT FOR THE BANK TO APPROVE YOU.>>Reporter: EDMONTON’S CHAPTER OF HABITAT FOR HUMANITY IS CURRENTLY HELPING 450 FAMILIES IN NORTHERN ALBERTA. BUT THAT HIGH NUMBER HAS COME AT A COST.>>WELL, WE WERE BORROWING AT 4.5% AND LENDING OUT AT ZERO PERCENT, WHICH ANYONE WILL TELL YOU IS NOT A SUSTAINABLE MODEL.>>Reporter: THE EDMONTON ORGINISATION SAYS THAT IT’S NEARLY $28 MILLION IN DEBT. DONATIONS AREN’T KEEPING UP SO IT NEEDS TO CHANGE ITS MORTGAGE MODEL OR ELSE.>>WE PROBABLY WON’T BE HERE LONGER THAN THREE YEARS.>>Reporter: THE TENANTS HAVE RETAINED A LAWYER AND THEY’RE FILING A CLASS-ACTION LAWSUIT UNLESS THEY GET A COMPROMISE FROM HABITAT AND THEY SAY THAT THEY’RE READY TO GO TO COURT TO TRY TO GET THE INTEREST-FREE MORTGAGES THEY WERE FIRST PROMISED. RAFFY BOUDJIKANIAN, CBC NEWS, EDMONTON.>>Rosemary: NEXT ON “THE NATIONAL,” IT’S THURSDAY, YOU KNOW WHAT THAT MEANS, ANDREW AND CHANTAL AND ALTHIA JOIN ME ALL IN THE SAME ROOM TO TALK ABOUT THE CONSERVATIVE LEADERSHIP RACE AND MORE.>>Adrienne: PLUS… (*) (singing).>>Adrienne: LOOK AT THAT, THAT TORONTO FAMILY GOES NEXT LEVEL IN THEIR ANNUAL CHRISTMAS CARDS IN OUR “MOMENT.” (*>>Ian: WELCOME BACK. TWO PEOPLE ARE PRESUMED DEAD FOLLOWING AN EXPLOSION IN SOUTH PHILADELPHIA TODAY, DESPITE THE ATTEMPTS BY FIREFIGHTERS TO SAVE THEM.>>THEY QUITE LITERALLY WENT INTO A FIRESTORM. AND, YOU KNOW, THEY’RE DISAPPOINTED. I TALKED TO THEM. THEY WISH THEY COULD HAVE MADE THAT RESCUE.>>Ian: FIRE ERUPTED IN ONE ROW HOUSE AND THEN SPREAD TO OTHERS. AT LEAST ONE HOME COLLAPSED. OFFICIALS SAY THAT ONE PERSON WAS SEEN TRAPPED UNDER DEBRIS AND THERE’S UNCONFIRMED REPORTS OF A SECOND PERSON INSIDE. NO REPORT YET ON THE CAUSE.>>>AT LEAST THREE PEOPLE WERE KILLED IN INDIA TODAY AS PROTESTS AGAINST A NEW CITIZENSHIP LAW TURNED VIOLENT. YOU CAN SEE POLICE IN THE CITY WHERE TWO PEOPLE HAVE DIED. ELSEWHERE POLICE USED WATER CANNON AND TEAR GAS TO DISBURSE CROWDS. THERE’S TEMPORARY BANS ON PUBLIC GATHERINGS AND THE INTERNET HAS BEEN SHUT DOWN IN SOME AREAS. MANY PEOPLE ARE ANGRY BECAUSE A NEW LAW GRANTING CITIZENSHIP FOR PEOPLE FLEEING RELIGIOUS PERSECUTION IN OTHER COUNTRIES EXCLUDES MUSLIMS.>>>RUSSIA’S F.S.B., ITS DOMESTIC SECURITY SERVICE, SAYS THAT AN EMPLOYEE IS DEAD AFTER A SHOOTING AT THEIR MOSCOW HEADQUARTERS. (gunshots). ACCORDING TO RUSSIAN MEDIA, FIVE PEOPLE WERE HURT, SOME SERIOUSLY. THE GUNMAN IS REPORTED TO HAVE BEEN, QUOTE, “NEUTRALIZED.” THIS ATTACK HAPPENED WHILE VLADIMIR PUTIN WAS SPEAKING AT A KREMLIN EVENT, CELEBRATING THE WORK OF THE SECURITY SERVICE. A MOTIVE HASN’T BEEN REPORTED.>>>LET’S GO BACK TO ROSEMARY NOW AND THE “AT ISSUE” PANEL. (*)>>Prime Minister Justin Trudeau: OBVIOUSLY, AS WE LOOK BACK OVER THE PAST YEAR ON THIS ISSUE, THERE ARE THINGS THAT WE COULD HAVE, SHOULD HAVE, WOULD HAVE DONE DIFFERENTLY HAD WE KNOWN. HAD WE KNOWN ALL SORTS OF DIFFERENT ASPECTS OF IT. BUT YOU DON’T GET DO-OVERS IN POLITICS. YOU ONLY DO THE BEST THAT YOU CAN TO PROTECT JOBS AND TO RESPECT THE INDEPENDENCE OF THE JUDICIARY.>>Rosemary: IT SURE LOOKS LIKE WE’RE ENDING 2019 THE WAY THAT WE STARTED IT, TALKING ABOUT THE SNC-LAVALIN CONTROVERSY. THAT WAS THE PRIME MINISTER REACTING TO NEWS OF THE PLEA DEAL. AND SO AFTER MONTHS AND MONTHS OF POLITICAL TURMOIL, WAS IT ALL WORTH IT? “AT ISSUE” IS HERE TO TALK ABOUT THAT AND MORE. AND WITH ME IN STUDIO IS CHANTAL HEBERT, AND ANDREW COYNE AND ALTHIA RAJ. THEY’RE ALL HERE. GOOD TO SEE YOU ALL. UM, I WAS A LITTLE BIT SURPRISED, TO BE HONEST, THAT THIS HAPPENED. I DIDN’T KNOW THAT THAT WAS EVEN — I GUESS THAT I DIDN’T EVEN KNOW THAT THEY WERE EVEN TALKING. SO NOT ONLY WERE THEY TALKING BUT THEY GOT TO A PLACE OF AGREEMENT. AND IT DOES SORT OF MAKE YOU WONDER WHETHER THE GOVERNMENT HAS SUFFERED UNNECESSARILY BECAUSE OF ITS OWN CAUSE POLITICALLY. IF THIS IS JUST GOING TO HAPPEN ON ITS OWN NATURALLY. IF THEY WERE GOING TO COME TO THIS SORT OF AGREEMENT.>>WELL, WE DON’T KNOW –>>Rosemary: OBVIOUSLY NOT.>>WHEN THIS DECISION WAS MADE, FIRST OF ALL TO COME TO THIS SORT OF AGREEMENT. IF THIS DEAL WAS AVAILABLE BEFORE YOU’D THINK THAT SNC-LAVALIN WOULD HAVE TAKEN IT. SO IT MAY BE THAT THE PROSECUTORS CHANGED THEIR MINDS AT SOME POINT. BUT THE SALIENT PART OF THIS IS THAT WAS A PROSECUTOR’S DECISION AND THE DECISION WITH SNC-LAVALIN WAS NOT WHETHER THERE SHOULD BE A DEAL AND WHETHER THE PROSECUTORS COULD CUT A DEAL WITH THEM, IT WAS WHO WOULD DECIDE. AND THE ATTEMPT BY THE GCHTD, UNSUCCESSFUL AS IT WAS, TO LEAN UPON THE ATTORNEY GENERAL TO THEN LEAN UPON THE PROSECUTORS TO DO SOMETHING THAT THE GOVERNMENT WANTED, THAT WAS AT THE ROOT OF IT AND THAT REMAINS THE ISSUE THOUGH THEY DIDN’T SUCCEED. THERE’S STILL A LOT OF UNANSWERED QUESTIONS ABOUT THAT.>>Rosemary: BUT I GUESS THAT MY POINT IS THAT WITH THAT — THAT GOES TO SHOW YOU THAT –>>WELL, YEAH –>>Rosemary: IT WASN’T A BRILLIANT MOVE BECAUSE THERE WOULD BE A DEAL ANYWAY.>>WE DIDN’T KNOW THAT. WE DON’T KNOW THAT.>>IF SNC-LAVALIN WAS CONVICTED OF THIS VERY SERIOUS CRIME THEY’VE NOW ADMITTED TO, THAT WAS GOING TO MEAN THE END OF 9,000 JOBS AND THE JOBS DISAPPEAR. THAT HAS GONE UP IN SMOKE AS WELL.>>OKAY, SO THE ISSUE OF BEING BANNED FROM FEDERAL CONTRACTS AND OTHER CONTRACTS WAS RELATED TO THE CORRUPTION CHARGES AND NOT THE FRAUD CHARGES. AND THOSE CHARGES HAVE ALL BEEN DROPPED. WHAT WE LOST IN NOT HAVING A REMEDIATION AGREEMENT WITHOUT REVISITING THE POLITICS OF WHO ASKED WHAT — TRANSPARENCY. YES, YOU WERE SURPRISED THAT THOSE TALKS WERE ONGOING AND YOU WILL NEVER KNOW ON WHAT BASIS THOSE DECISIONS WERE MADE. A REMEDIATION AGREEMENT WOULD HAVE COME TO ABOUT THE SAME RESULT FOR SNC-LAVALIN, A BIG FINE, MONITORING, AND THE CAPACITY TO CONTINUE, DESPITE ALL OF THAT — ADMISSION OF CULABILITY TO BID FOR ALL OF THE CONTRACTS. BUT THE MINISTER WOULD HAVE BEEN FORCED TO EXPLAIN AND WHAT BASIS THE AGREEMENT WAS OFFERED. SO WE LOST ON THAT. I THINK THAT THE OUTCOME IS NOT VERY DIFFERENT THAN IT WOULD HAVE BEEN IF THEY’D OFFERED THE COMPANY A REMEDIATION AGREEMENT. AND THAT IS SOMETHING WE WILL NEVER SEE IN THAT NEGOTIATION ROOM.>>Rosemary: ALTHIA?>>WE DON’T KNOW WHAT A PLEA BARGAIN WOULD HAVE LOOKED LIKE WITHOUT THE PUBLIC KERFUFFLE OVER THE D.P.A. YOU KNOW, I DON’T THINK THAT PROSECUTORS COULD HAVE ACTED IN A VACUUM. THEY KNEW WHAT POLITICAL MASTERS WANTED AND WHAT THE RESULT WANTED, AND THAT IS WHAT HAPPENED. SO IT’S HARD TO DIVORCE THE TWO. YOU KNOW, IN THAT CLIP WE DON’T HEAR THE PRIME MINISTER — TO ME IT’S THE MOST SHOCKING THING — FROM THE WHOLE AFFAIR, SAYING THAT HE HAD PERHAPS LEARNED LESSONS ABOUT TAKING AT ITS WORD WHAT A COMPANY SAYS. AND GRANTING SO MUCH ACCESS TO A PRIVATE COMPANY, PUBLICLY SHARED, SO A PUBLIC INTEREST ON BOTH SIDES. BUT WHEN YOU GO THROUGH THE ETHICS COMMISSIONERS, LIKE, THE REPORT ABOUT JUST HOW INVOLVED THIS COMPANY AND THE BOARD AND PEOPLE WERE — NOT JUST IN THE PRIME MINISTER’S OFFICE BUT IN THE FINANCE MINISTER’S OFFICE AND THE TREASURY BOARD MINISTER’S OFFICES. AND JUST HOW — HOW THEY WERE ALL THROUGHOUT THIS GOVERNMENT, YOU HAVE TO WONDER ARE THERE OTHER BUSINESSES WHO HAVE HAD THIS TYPE OF ACCESS? ARE THERE DEEPER LESSONS LEARNED HERE ON HOW YOU SHOULD OR SHOULD NOT HAVE ENGAGED BUSINESSES? THAT TO ME IS SOMETHING THAT I FEEL LIKE, HAY, MAYBE YOU SHOULD HAVE LEARNED A LESSON THAT GOES BEYOND MISHANDLING A CAUCUS MEMBER. I MEAN, I DON’T SEE EYE-TO-EYE WITH ANDREW ABOUT WHAT –>>Rosemary: WE HAVE ESTABLISHED THAT OVER 12 MONTHS.>>BUT I THINK THAT JODY WILSON-RAYBOULD DID NOT WANT TO BE HOLDING THE BAG. SHE SAYS CLEARLY IN HER CALL WITH MICHAEL WERNICK THAT IT WOULD BE EMBARRASSING. THIS WOULD BE THE FIRST TIME AND SHE’D HAVE TO EXPLAIN TO PEOPLE, AND THE LEGAL COMMUNITY WHY SHE WAS DOING THIS.>>Rosemary: YEAH, BUT THAT ANSWER, WITH ALL DUE RESPECT TO THE PRIME MINISTER, IS NOT TERRIBLY DIFFERENT THAN THE ANSWER THAT HE GAVE SIX MONTHS AGO, YOU KNOW WHAT I MEAN? I DON’T THINK THAT HIS STORY OR HIS REACTION HAS CHANGED.>>AND IT’S NOT GOING TO CHANGE GOING FORWARD. THIS IS WHERE HE’S SET HIS FLAG AND HE WILL LEAVE IT THERE. BUT, YES, SNC-LAVALIN HAD A LOT OF INSIDE CONTACTS. AND THEY USED THE FACT THEY HAD JOBS IN THE BALANCE TO GET THAT INSIDE CONTACT. WE SHOULD PROBABLY BE THANKFUL THAT WE LIVE IN AN ERA WHERE BIG BUSINESS NO LONGER GIVES BIG CHEQUES TO PARTIES AT LEAST BECAUSE THERE WAS NOT SO LONG AGO BEFORE THOSE REFORMS, THE CONNECTIONS AND INSIDE CONTACTS ON THE BASIS THAT YOU WERE A BIG DONOR.>>Rosemary: WE SPENT A LOT OF TIME ON THAT FILE AND I’M HAPPY TO MOVE ON. [laughter]>>WE MAY BE TALKING ABOUT IT AGAIN.>>Rosemary: I KNOW, WE MAY TALK ABOUT IT ALL SPRING.>>NO, WE WILL NOT TALK ABOUT THIS ALL SPRING. SORRY. [laughter]>>Rosemary: BECAUSE THEY WILL COME BACK. LET’S MOVE ON TO THE CONSERVATIVE LEADERSHIP RACE AND A FEW BIG NAMES ARE ALREADY OUT THERE.>>WE WILL BE TALKING ABOUT THAT ALL SPRING.>>Rosemary: AND A LOT OF PEOPLE ARE CONSIDERING IT. AND HERE’S WHAT I MEAN –>>A LOT OF PEOPLE ARE SENDING ME EMAILS AND, YOU KNOW, FACEBOOK POSTS AND TEXTS TO ENCOURAGE ME TO RUN.>>I THINK IT’S FAR TOO SOON TO MAKE A DECISION OF THIS MAGNITUDE. AND SO I WILL OBVIOUSLY TAKE THE TIME NECESSARY.>>I’M CONSIDERING IT, REGARDLESS OF THE ROLE THAT I PLAY THOUGH, I THINK THAT WE NEED TO BUILD A MUCH BIGGER CONSERVATIVE PARTY.>>MY FIRST THOUGHT IS RONA.>>Rosemary: SO LOTS OF PEOPLE THINKING ABOUT IT, OBVIOUSLY, ONE BIG NAME IS MISSING. THERE’S TWO BIG NAMES — WELL, YOU HEARD RONA AMBROSE AND THERE’S ANOTHER NAME OUT THERE NOW AND THAT IS JEAN CHAREST. LET’S START WITH JEAN CHAREST AND MOVE TO RONA AMBROSE. THE CHAREST THING IS REAL?>>IS REAL. IT’S A SERIOUS — I CALL IT THE LAST POLITICAL TEMPTATION OF JEAN CHAREST. [laughter] BY ALL ACCOUNTS — AND HE’S ADMITTED I THINK TODAY THAT HE WAS THINKING ABOUT IT — HE IS TEMPTED. PEOPLE WHO HAVE TALKED TO HIM WILL TELL YOU THAT HE REALLY SEES THIS AS MAYBE SOMETHING THAT HE WANTS TO DO. NOW WHETHER OVER TIME HE WILL STICK WITH THAT DECISION IS ANOTHER ISSUE. IT’S NOT THE PARTY THAT HE LEFT BEHIND. HE WAS A PREMIER IN BETWEEN, A LIBERAL PREMIER. IT LOOKS LIKE THE FORMER TORIES ARE TRYING TO TAKE OVER. IT’S COMPLICATED AND I’M NOT SURE THAT HE KNOWS ALL OF THE PLAYERS IN THE WAY THAT HE USED TO. SO QUESTION MARK. BUT HE IS ENGAGED AND JEAN CHAREST — ONE THING THAT EVERYONE AGREES ON IS THAT HE’S ONE OF THE BEST CAMPAIGNERS.>>Rosemary: YES, HAVING FOLLOWED HIM FOR A LONG TIME — TOO LONG — EXTREMELY CAPABLE AND CHARMING. BUT TO SAY THAT HE DOESN’T COME WITH A LOT OF BAGGAGE.>>BAGGAGE.>>Emily: YEAH, IS NO ONE SAYING THAT TO HIM?>>NOT ONLY AS PREMIER OF QUÉBEC BUT AS THE FORMER PARTY LEADER OF THE P.C. PARTY. WHERE PEOPLE INVESTED HEAVILY IN EXPECTATIONS AND HOPES AND HE WAS CONSISTENTLY FELL SHORT OF. I’M NOT SURE THAT THERE’S A REALLY THAT LARGE A CONSTITUENCY FOR HIM IN TODAY’S CONSERVATIVE PARTY. AND I FEAR THAT HE MAY EMBARRASS HIMSELF IF HE GOES INTO THIS.>>Rosemary: HMM.>>I DON’T THINK THAT WE SHOULD JUDGE HIM FROM THE ACTIONS OF LIKE 30 YEARS AGO, BUT, YOU KNOW, MAYBE PEOPLE ARE NOT TELLING HIM ABOUT THE BAGGAGE. BUT THE CONSERVATIVES, THAT’S THE FIRST WORD THAT THEY MENTION, HE’S GOT TOO MUCH BAGGAGE. AND HE BETTER NOT GO INTO THIS RACE UNLESS HE’S ASSURED THAT HE CAN WIN. BECAUSE THERE’S NO WAY THAT YOU WANT THAT MARK ON YOUR LEGACY.>>Rosemary: NO.>>AND THERE IS NO WAY THAT HE CAN BE ASSURED TO WIN IF HE ENTERS THIS RACE. IT’S MORE COMPLICATED THAN THAT, HE NEEDS SUPPORT ACROSS THE COUNTRY. AND HE WILL HAVE COMPETITION. THERE IS NO CORONATION ON OFFER IN THIS CASE.>>Rosemary: SO RONA AMBROSE, THE OTHER PERSON WHOSE NAME HAS NOW TAKEN ON A NEW LEVEL AND SHE IS ALSO GETTING MANY CALLS. I WOULDN’T SAY THAT SHE’S CONSIDERING IT, BUT SHE’S NOT NOT CONSIDERING IT.>>IF YOU’RE NOT CONSIDERING SOMETHING, THERE ARE MANY WAYS TO LET PEOPLE KNOW AND IT’S BEEN A FEW WEEKS AND –>>YOU JUST HAVE TO SAY NO. [laughter]>>NOT THAT HARD –>>LOTS — YOU’RE SEEING THIS FROM A LOT OF CANDIDATES, CHRISTY CLARK, FOR EXAMPLE, AND WHERE THEY GIVE EVERY ANSWER BUT NO. IT’S NOT ON MY RADAR.>>SO IT RAISES THEIR MARKET VALUE.>>Rosemary: IT DOES.>>LET’S BE CLEAR THIS IS THE LEAST COSTLY WAY OF RAISING YOUR PROFILE. GEE, YOU KNOW, HOW WOULD WE KNOW BUT STILL –>>Rosemary: WE’RE TALKING ABOUT IT ON “AT ISSUE,” SO IT MUST BE REAL.>>PEOPLE ARE SORTING UP THIS SORT OF BOOM AROUND RONA AMBROSE AND I’M NOT SURE WHERE IT COMES FROM. SHE WAS AN INTERIM LEADER AND A CABINET MINISTER BUT SHE WAS NOT THE ENORMOUS FIGURE IN THE PARTY THAT PEOPLE ARE NOW GLOMMING ON TO HER AS THE SAVIOUR. IT IS ENCOURAGING THOUGH, JEAN CHAREST AND RONA AMBROSE, ALL OF THESE NAMES THAT PEOPLE — FROM THE PARTY STANDPOINT, PEOPLE WHO WOULD HAVE CONSIDERED IT LAST TIME AROUND ARE NOW LOOKING AT IT. AND THE RELATIVE STANDING OF THE PARTIES HAVE CHANGED AND YOU HAVE A POTENTIAL TO BE A FUTURE PRIME MINISTER. SO A LOT OF EXPRESSIONS OF INTEREST COMING FORWARD.>>Rosemary: I THINK THAT THE FRENCH THING, I THINK THAT YOU’RE DEAD IN THE WATER, ARE YOU NOT?>>I HAVE NOT SPOKEN TO HER RECENTLY BUT I WAS NOT UNDER THE IMPRESSION THAT SHE WAS STILL TAKING FRENCH LESSONS. SHE WAS TAKING FRENCH LESSONS WHEN SHE WAS INTERIM LEADER. AND HER FRENCH WAS NOT GREAT. LIKE, SHE WOULD HAVE HAD A HARD TIME IN A DEBATE. SHE CAN MUDDLE HER WAY THROUGH A SITDOWN INTERVIEW, BUT THINKING ON YOUR FEET IN A SECOND OR IN HER CASE A FOURTH LANGUAGE, I THINK, THAT’S DIFFICULT. SHE’S SAID PUBLICLY THAT SHE THINKS THAT THE NEXT LEADER HAS TO BE BILINGUAL. SHE ALSO SAID WHEN SHE LEFT THAT SHE WAS LOOKING FORWARD TO HAVING A LIFE IN THE PRIVATE SECTOR. MY SENSE FROM PEOPLE AROUND HER IS THAT, YOU KNOW, SHE BASICALLY MADE A DEAL WITH HER HUSBAND AND SHE WAS GOING TO DO THE INTERIM LEADER THING AND THEY WERE GOING TO GO OFF AND HAVE A NICE LIFE TOGETHER. AND TO ME IT SEEMS THAT SHE WANTS TO GET BACK IN THE GAME, RIGHT? SHE SERVES ON THE COUNCIL AND SHE’S ON TV ALL THE TIME TALKING ABOUT HER BILL ABOUT JUDICIAL TRAINING. SHE HAS — STILL HER WEBSITE IS UP, RONAAMBROSE.COM. SHE LIKES — IT SEEMS TO ME THAT SHE WANTS TO GET IN. AND I VIEW JASON KENNEY THROWING HER NAME OUT THERE AS TO MAKE THIS DECISION FOR THE GREATER GOOD.>>Rosemary: THEY’RE GOOD FRIENDS.>>BUT WE WILL SEE — BECAUSE I DON’T THINK THAT IT’S A DECISION THAT SHE CAN TAKE ON HER OWN.>>Rosemary: LAST WORD?>>IT TELLS YOU HOW COMPELLING THIS GAME MIGHT BE THAT PEOPLE WHO AARON A GOOD INTERESTING LIVING, LIKE ROBEA AMBROSE AND JEAN CHAREST LET THEIR NAMES –>>THEY ARE ADDICTED.>>THEY ARE ADDICTED.>>THEY ARE POLITICIANSES.>>BUT THEN IF YOU’RE GOING TO WANT THIS, YOU REALLY NEED TO WANT THIS. BECAUSE IT’S GREAT TO WIN THE LEADERSHIP, BUT THEN YOU HAVE TO LIVE WITH ALL OF THE REST. AND SO — BUT IT’S INTERESTING.>>Rosemary: YOU CAN NEVER QUIT POLITICS, THAT’S WHAT IT COMES DOWN TO. YOU CAN TRY BUT YOU WON’T.>>WHENEVER THEY BECAME THIS LAUGHABLE CLICHE WHEN A POLITICIAN RESIGNS THAT I’LL SPEND MORE TIME WITH THEIR FAMILY. IF THEY WERE INTERESTED IN SPENDING MORE TIME WITH THEIR FAMILY, THEY WOULD HAVE NEVER GOTTEN INTO THE GAME.>>Rosemary: AND THEIR FAMILY IS PROBABLY OVER IT. AND LOOK FOR IT ON ANY PODCAST APP AND OUR WEBSITE cbcnews.ca/thenational.>>Adrienne: NEXT ON “THE NATIONAL,” A CROSS BORDER CHRISTMAS GIFT GETS A LITTLE SIDE EYE ON ARRIVAL. THE NORWEGIAN TREE THAT SOME BRITS ARE SCOFFING AT RIGHT AFTER THIS. PLUS…>>EARLIER THIS MONTH THE LITERARY PHENOMENON JOHN IRVING, A GREAT AMERICAN NOVELIST, CHOSE TO BECOME CANADIAN. * O CANADA >>THIS IS A VERY CONSCIOUS CHOICE. I WANT TO LIVE HERE. I LOVE IT HERE.>>Rosemary: IN A TELEVISION EXCLUSIVE I SAT DOWN WITH HIM TO FIND OUT MORE ABOUT HIS DECISION. THAT’S TOMORROW NIGHT ON “THE NATIONAL.” (*)>>I’M MARION WARNICA IN FOR JAYME POISSON. TOMORROW ON CBC NEWS DAILY PODCAST “FRONTBURNER,” VICTIMS OF A TORONTO MASS SHOOTING SUE THE GUN MAKER SMITH & WESSON OVER SMART TECH THEY SAY COULD HAVE SAVED LIVES. SUBSCRIBE WHEREVER YOU GET YOUR PODCASTS.>>Adrienne: THE CHRISTMAS TREE IN LONDON’S TRAFALGAR SQUARE WAS SWITCHED ON WITH THE USUAL YULETIDE ENTHUSIASM. HUNDREDS OF PEOPLE GATHERED FOR THAT GLEEFUL MOMENT WHEN IT WAS ALL LIT UP. BUT THIS YEAR THE GRINCHES ARE OUT. CAROLYN DUNN EXPLAINS WHY BRITAIN’S MOST FAMOUS CHRISTMAS TREE IS ALSO ITS MOST MOCKED. (*)>>Reporter: IN TRAFALGAR SQUARE, THE COUNTDOWN TO CHRISTMAS IS ON. THE ICONIC NORWAY SPRUCE TOWERS 25 METRES OVER THE PEOPLE WHO FLOCK TO SEE IT. BUT THIS YEAR THE OOHS AND AHHS SOUND MORE A BIT LIKE THIS.>>IT IS VERY SPARSE. IT LOOKS LIKE HALF OF THE NEEDLES ARE MISSING OFF OF IT.>>Reporter: HE CAME FROM NORWAY TO LONDON TO SHOP AND SNAPPED SOUVENIER PHOTOS OF THE TREE.>>IT’S BAD.>>Reporter: WHY?>>I KNOW A LOT NICER TREES IN NORWAY THAN THIS ONE.>>MUST BE A BIT WILD BECAUSE WE’RE COMING OUT OF THE E.U. OR SOMETHING. OR SOMETHING MUST BE HAPPENING TO SEND A TREE LIKE THAT.>>Reporter: IN ALL SERIOUSNESS THE NORWAY SPRUCE IN TRAFALGAR SQUARE IS STEEPED IN HISTORY. KING HAAKON VII FIRST GIFTED A TREE TO BRITAIN IN 1947, WHILE GRANTING HIM REFUGE FROM THE NAZI INVASION OF NORWAY. IT HAS BEEN AN ANNUAL GIFT OF THANKS EVER SINCE. DANIEL PHILIPS IS A HORTICULTURAL EXPERT. HE’S SAYS THAT IT’S EXACTLY WHAT YOU WOULD EXPECT — A DECADES OLD NATURALLY GROWN NORWAY SPRUCE TO LOOK LIKE.>>I THINK THAT IT’S THE BEST SHAPE FOR THE CHRISTMAS TREES THAT YOU CAN BUY.>>Reporter: WHY?>>A PROPER CHRISTMAS TREE SHAPE. AND IT’S A TRADITIONAL ONE. AND THE ONE THAT I HAD WHEN I WAS YOUNG.>>Reporter: THE HONOURARY MAYOR OF WESTMINSTER COULDN’T AGREE MORE. THIS YEAR SHE WAS THE DIGNITARY WHO ATTENDED THE ANNUAL FELLING OF THE TREE IN NORWAY. SHE FIGURES THE CRITICISM SAYS MORE ABOUT SHARES ON SOCIAL MEDIA THAN IT DOES ABOUT THE TREE.>>I CAN UNDERSTAND IT BECAUSE IT’S AN UNFAMILIAR SPECIES IN THIS COUNTRY. IT’S UPSETTING A LITTLE BECAUSE IT IS SUCH AN IMPORTANT GIFT.>>IT’S TAKEN A LOT OF PEOPLE A LOT OF PATIENCE AND TROUBLE TO GET IT OVER HERE AND THEN TO ERECT IT OVER HERE AND EVERYTHING. AND THEN TO MOAN ABOUT IT, I THINK THAT IS SILLY. * AND A PARTRIDGE IN A PEAR TREE>>Reporter: BESIDE WHEN’S THE CAROLERS START SINGING THE SONG, AND THE VERTICAL NORWEGIAN LIGHTS TWINKLE IN THE DARKNESS SYMBOLIC OF THE PEACE AND CALM OF THE SEASON, THE TRAFALGAR SQUARE CHRISTMAS TREE LOOKS BEAUTIFUL BY ANY STANDARD. CAROLYN DUNN, CBC NEWS, LONDON.>>Adrienne: IT IS A PERFECTLY GOOD TREE.>>>NEXT ON “THE NATIONAL,” A “MOMENT” THAT YOU WON’T WANT TO MISS. (*) AN INTERGALACTIC CHRISTMAS CARD RIGHT AFTER THIS. BUT FIRST… (*)>>”IN CASE YOU MISSED IT” TURNS OUT THAT YELLOWKNIFE IS COLD THIS TIME OF YEAR.>>YOU WANT TO KNOW HOW COLD IT IS, PRODUCERS? THIS WATER TURNS TO STEAM AND IT’S FALLING LIKE ROCKS. LOOK AT THIS CORD.>>Rosemary: AH, THE EXTREME WEATHER BEAT, I KNOW IT WELL, FROM HURRICANE TO HEAT WAVES TO BONE-CHILLING COLD. IT’S A TV STAPLE. CBC NORTH’S GARRETT HINCHEY WAS ASSIGNED THAT SHORT SCHTICK EARLIER THIS WEEK DURING AN EXTREMELY BRUTAL COLD SNAP.>>IT’S -41°. HOW COLD — LET’S GO INSIDE.>>Rosemary: BUT TELLING A WEATHER STORY FOR THE HUNDREDTH TIME WITH GRACE AND HUMOUR IS GARRETT’S THING. AS HE DISPLAYED DURING A HEAT WAVE.>>IT’S A BALMY 40° IN YELLOWKNIFE BUT WE SHOULD SEE TEMPERATURES LIKE THIS WELL INTO THE WEEK.>>Rosemary: SO HEAT CAN BE RELATIVE IN CANADA. THE POINT IS — TEAM PLAYER.>>DO I LOOK LIKE AN IDIOT?>>Rosemary: NO, MAN. AT LEAST NO (*)>>Adrienne: BEHOLD THE CHRISTMAS CARD THAT A TORONTO FAMILY SENT OUT THIS YEAR. THAT LITTLE SQUIGGLY THING IN THE RIGHTHAND CORNER? CAN YOU SEE THAT? IF YOU DON’T RECOGNIZE IT IT’S CALLED A Q.R. CODE. CAPTURE ITS IMAGE ON YOUR PHONE AND IT TAKES YOU TO A WEBSITE, IN THIS CASE TO A MUSIC VIDEO SHOT BY THAT FAMILY. IT WAS A SPOOF ON THE B.C. BOYS VIDEO “INTERGALACTIC.” IT WAS SO GOOD THAT THE CO-WORKER CONVINCED THE FAMILY TO POST IT TO YouTube AND OF COURSE IT WENT VIRAL. SO, OF COURSE, IT’S OUR “MOMENT.” (*)>>WE WERE LOOKING FOR A THREE-P THEME. AND I THOUGHT WHAT BETTER ICONIC TRIO THAN B.C. BOYS. THE THING ABOUT THAT MUSIC VIDEO THAT ALWAYS STOOD OUT TO ME IS THE REALLY AMAZING WAY TO JUST HAVE SO MUCH CREATIVITY, EVEN ON WHAT SEEMS LIKE A LOW BUDGET.>>MY FAVOURITE PART WAS [indiscernible] THE CAMERA WAS GOING IN A CIRCLE AROUND US AND WE WERE MAKING REALLY COOL POSES.>>PRODUCTION WITH KIDS, YOU HAVE TO MOVE EXTREMELY QUICK. WE WERE ROUND TRIP IN UNDER TWO HOURS.>>WE HAD A LOT OF COMPLIMENTS. IT’S REALLY CRAZY.>>IT’S LIKE — IT’S DEFINITELY NOT IN MY COMFORT ZONE. LET’S JUST SAY THAT.>>Adrienne: I WOULD BEG TO DIFFER. I THINK THAT IT IS IN HER COMFORT ZONE, PUTTING THE REST OF US TO SHAME. THAT IS FANTASTIC. AND CLEARLY SHE’S GOT SOME EDITING CHOPS.>>Ian: A LOT OF PEOPLE ARE WATCHING THIS VIDEO ON YouTube AND I LOOKED AT THE COMMENTS AND THAT CAN BE A TRICKY PLACE TO NAVIGATE THROUGH. ALL OF THE COMMENTS THAT I READ WERE SO EXCITED AND PEOPLE CALLING HER MOTHER OF THE YEAR. ONE PERSON SAYING THAT IT MAKES ME WANT TO HAVE KIDS. BECAUSE YOU KNOW HAVING KIDS THAT YOUNG, EVERY DAY IS LIKE A MUSIC VIDEO.>>Rosemary: SHE IS A VIDEO EDITOR, JUST SO THAT PEOPLE AT HOME ARE LIKE, WOW, I COULD JUST DO THAT ON MY COMPUTER. LIKE, YOU COULD TRY, BUT PROBABLY NOT. THE OTHER DAY I WROTE A CHRISTMAS CARD ON A POST-IT NOTE FOR SOMEONE AT WORK.>>Adrienne: OH, EXCELLENT. [laughter]>>Rosemary: SO YOU KNOW, WE ALL DO THINGS AS WELL AS WE CAN.>>>THAT IS “THE NATIONAL” FOR THIS THURSDAY, DECEMBER 19th. GOODNIGHT.>>Adrienne: GOODNIGHT.>>Ian: GOODNIGHT. (*)

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