April 1, 2020
The Best Email Marketing Strategies for 2020

The Best Email Marketing Strategies for 2020


In this episode of the
business of e-commerce. I talked with Dylan Kelly about the
best email marketing strategies for 2020 this is a business of
eCommerce episode 101 welcome to the business of eCommerce. They show the helps
eCommerce retailers start, launch and grow their eCommerce
business. I’m your host, Charles [inaudible] and I’m
here today with Dylan. Kelly. Dylan is the founder of wave break
and he’s an email marketing expert. I asked him on the show today to talk
about what marketing strategies you should be using going into 2020 so, Hey
Dylan, how are you doing today? Doing well. Good to be on the
show. Thanks for having me. Yeah. Awesome to have you back on the show.
You are repeat guest. You were here in, what about about a year ago?
Episode 60. I think, right? Yeah, we’re getting here.
We’re getting on almost a year. So it was last January,
well, January, 2019 January. Okay. And at the time
we talked about email strategy, email marketing strategies for
2019. So now, almost a year later, we’re talking about 20, 20, so 20, 20 emails still a thing.
It’s still making money. And I’m going to tell you how
to make more of it in 2020. Awesome. So a year later, and what do
you, what do you know, email still works? How about how about bash? It still works, you know, and despite
all the fear and EV, everyone, you know, freaking out like, Oh, this and that
email’s dying. But no, I mean it’s still, I mean it’s still crushing it
for our clients and I mean, it’s going to keep doing that. It’s not going to be like this thing
that just one day it’s like, Oh, email just completely dies. Yeah, I mean, And I feel like every year this
becomes, this is a thing, right? Where they’re like, well, social
and you can like it, you know, you can build like a Facebook following
and like everyone starts doing that and then all of a sudden Facebook kind of
locks it down and makes it so well you need to actually pay it every year
and followers and like, okay, well, and everyone moves back to email and then
like something new comes along and it just, it keeps, it just keeps going
around in a circle. But email ever. That’s the one thing that everyone
keeps coming back to, it seems Right. Like literally over
the last 20 years, right? Like basically entire
history of, you know, e-commerce on the internet as no a email
has been there and you always own your email list. So it’s this asset
that just like unlike, I mean, you think about all the social networks
that have come and gone, you know, in the beginning, Friendster, MySpace, all these random ones that don’t
even exist anymore. I mean, back then you could just rank and
bank and it’s not the same anymore. If SEO that changes, you know, every
few months you get Facebook doing, you know, their whole, like the whole law with Cambridge
Analytica and all these things. Like if people start
freaking out, like, you know, they have their new
Netflix documentary on it, even I was watching and I was like,
wow, that’s pretty crazy. And I know, Yeah, exactly that. Yeah. Yeah. It’s a, it’s a really good movie and it’s actually
really freaky because like part of me is like, okay, like, you know, I don’t want Facebook to do
anything because like, you know, the industry we’re in, it’s
crushing it for everybody. Like a lot of people depending
on it at the same time, you know, it is kind of freaky to know that like
how many data points they have on people to use to decel. And as people get more freaked out
about this and as the government gets involved, like we saw, you know, things
happen. Like, you know, Facebook isn’t, at the end of day, you
don’t own Facebook. Right. But you do own your email list. Which
is really, really important. And, and it’s not going to go anywhere. Like
you even see people like talk about, you know, Oh, messenger marketing, right?
Like, Oh, this is, this is the future. Well, like you don’t even own
that list. Because once again, that’s Facebook and I mean we’re starting
to see in the messenger landscape too, like, you know, raising prices,
like they see people getting insane. ROI is they’re going to want their
cut. Same goes for SMS, right? Like people have even been talking
about like last 10 years, you know, SMS is the new thing, right? And it’s finally starting to catch on
now and now there’s finally, you know, good technology to do that for
eCommerce and for retailers. But at the same time, like it’s one
of those things where it’s like the, you know, the cell phone company is the
people who are, you know, sending these, you know, the ROI is insane, right?
And any time a company sees that, like, Oh my goodness, this is so profitable,
I bet people would pay, you know, if people are getting 130 X ROI,
you know, 60 X ROI is great. So why don’t we just double our prices?
And then it’s like, before you know it, it’s not as good as it was. But thing about email is it’s just that
one consistent channel that’s been here for the last 20 years. It’s not going
anywhere, especially not anytime soon. And without it in 2020, you’re going to leave a ton of money on
the table money that you already spent to acquire your customers, right?
You’re already spending $1,000 a day, $10,000 a day on Facebook ads. And
you know, what’s your conversion rate? Two to 5%, maybe 10% if you’re lucky, like in you have some insane website
or targeted to traffic or something, but the rest of those people, they’re
gone. But what’s great about emails, you can capture those people and you
can get your customers to come back for more, which of course, you know, it
makes the business a lot more profitable, enables you to scale because now you can
spend more on ads because the lifetime value is higher, you know, so on and so
forth. And I, I can keep going on that. But that’s the gist. Yeah. It’s a very like, like
for lack of better word, intimate form of communication where you
really are talking directly to someone else and you can kind of as tools
now we can kind of talk is, you know, they used to just be email blast where
you just write out this like, you know, big email to thousands
of people and you know, hope that it hits kind of the
right people the right way. But now you can almost talk completely
like one-to-one with different folks. And it’s really this thing
where, you know, you know, Hey, they’re opening it and they really
are reading this verse, you know, just like display advertising was, you’re
just blasting out to the world. So, yeah, totally agree. Cool. Yeah. So
what is, so since we last talked, has anything changed like
in the past, you know, six, 12 months or like what has changed in
2019 that was working and isn’t, or, or is there anything or is
it still kinda the same? Yeah, so that’s a really good question.
I mean like the biggest thing is like, and we see this over time, like this
has been happening the whole time, but like the reality is people
get used to marketing, right? Like they get fatigued, you know,
you run the same ad for so long, it could where it’s like crazy in the
beginning and then before, you know, and it’s like, okay, this ad’s
not working like it used to be. And you know what we’re seeing, you know, running email marketing for some of
the top brands and e-commerce is like, people are getting used
to the good old, like, like you talked about the batch and
blast, like spray and pray. Just like, right. Like so many brands like this kind
of brands fall in two buckets, right? They send like no emails,
which is terrible. Or they send like w equally bad. They
just kind of spray and pray. It’s like, Oh crap, labor day is in a week.
Or like, you know, like, Oh, black Friday’s tomorrow, let’s
just blast out an email real quick. But there’s no real thought behind
it. It’s last minute. It’s rushed. Bo, what we see the most successful
brands doing is not just doing, taking the spray and pray approach and
this is something that we’ve even turned into like a system that we use for all
of our clients in like a real framework, we call it the way break method, but the idea is that it’s like
reverse engineered email marketing. And what I mean by that is
before it used to be like, Hey, let’s set up some email sequences
based on best practices. Like tell me the timing, give me this
amazing template, amazing subject line, plop it into any store and it’ll be great. But the reality is every
store is different and every
customer is different and everybody like so many of the same
Shopify stores all have like the default abandoned cart and like it’s just like
the same old same old and you’re leaving a lot of money on the table with that
because you’re like you said like you can treat people differently now, but what
does that actually look like? Well, you got to think about your list, not as just a list that you
blast and make money there. People on your list and you got to think
about why do these people buy and why don’t they buy. And what we find is that by taking like
this reverse engineered email marketing that I’m talking about that we’ve kind
of discovered and we’ve been using with our clients to great success and it’s
like taking things back a step instead of just saying like, Oh, we’re going
to send out a sale on black Friday. It’s like wait, before we do that, why do people not buy from us? And then you think through
their objections and you
take them off the table. I’m a great analogy of this
is this isn’t my, my analogy, I stole this from a book.
I forget which book, but it’s like before a
customer goes to buy, like they have all these
objections in their head, right? There might be like five
or six and you can take, and they don’t even know
they have these objections, but you can slowly and subtly take
them off the table. Like, for example, you know like, Oh like what
if this breaks or whatever. Like some of them are more
obvious, but it’s kind of, if you think of an airplane conveyor belt, like you’re waiting in line
for your luggage and like
when you check these boxes with people, when you take
their objections off the table, it’s like you’re taking a piece
of luggage off the conveyor belt. And what’s really cool about email is
that you can do this in an extremely targeted way. Like if somebody is on your email
list and they haven’t bought yet, there’s probably like 3 million reasons
why they haven’t bought. I’m like, I’ll give you an example. Like let’s
say you have an online clothing store, you know, they’re thinking like,
what if this doesn’t fit? You know, maybe you charge a shipping minimum
so they don’t want to pay the shipping minimum or something like that. Or they just have some other
totally random objection. And the reality is most retailers,
they don’t even address those. They don’t use email to talk about those. All they send out is like selfish emails
where it’s like, Hey, buy something, you know, we’ll give you a discount.
But like it’s just, they’re, they’re not adding any value, you know, they’re not sending anything besides
the sale emails and they’re not actually using email to educate their email
list on like reasons to purchase, like educate and persuade them. So that’s kind of a high
level overview of where like, if you want to be successful
with email marketing in 2020, that’s what you’re going to have to do. Get more personalized and really think
about the people behind the emails that you’re sending. Yeah, I feel like back in the
day, going back even, you know, years ago you were almost like
excited to get an email. Like, Hey, someone’s emailed me. Fantastic.
And like, Oh, Brandon, maybe like the gap really, you know,
thanks to gap reached out to me. Right then it got where everyone’s doing
right now. It’s at the point where, you know, you need to be more
creative. And just like you said, just sending out those sale emails,
you can only send that so often. You can’t get, you know, everything’s
not always on sale and just sending, you know, your to, you know, your black Friday and your holiday
email each year doesn’t really cut it. People kind of forgot who you are. So you need a way of staying in touch
with people throughout the year. So what are some things you can do to
actually start emailing folks on a more regular basis and not just,
you know, like you said, those handful of selfish emails per
year and it’s, you know, holiday sale, black Friday. That’s great. You should,
everyone should send those, right? That’s fine. Yeah, definitely don’t not send those,
that’s not what I’m saying at all. You definitely, you need
to be sending those emails, But there’s like 45 more weeks throughout
the year. If you’re doing a weekly, there’s another like 40, you should also
be emailing. But what is the content, cause you know, you don’t
always have something, you know, you don’t always have something great
to talk about. So how do you kind of ma, what do you manufacture each week to
actually talk about to people? That’s, that adds value. Yeah. Yeah. That’s a great, great
question. So I mean, like you said, like there’s, there’s over 40 other weeks
in the year that aren’t around a sale. And there’s a few ways
we approach this. Like, and the reality is like if you’re just
sending those emails on black Friday, like you said, people are gonna
not, they’re going to be like, who the heck is this? And you’re
not gonna make as much money. So by warming your list up and keeping
it active and engaged throughout the year, you’re actually going to
make more money on black Friday. So some examples of, I’ll give you some exact examples cause
so many people just beat around the Bush with this and like nobody even really
like one of the reasons why I love going on podcasts like this and you know, we’re actually doing a lot more content
ourselves in 2020 with like, you know, specific, actionable, like w guides just filled with
examples like given away for free. Just cause I’m tired of bad
email marketing. We can’t
help that help everybody. But like basically what
we do with clients is, is kinda like what I said first is
like, you know, you just, number one, it’s like you want to be consistent. Like that’s really important and
you want to make sure like your, whatever you do, like people are
going to get used to it. Like, even if you’re just
emailing once per week, people are going to start
to expect that from you. And then if you miss one week, it’s like
they already start, forget about you. But anyway, like you were saying,
what the heck do I send? Well, I mean, really you can we kinda joke around like, w will you find any excuse
to email people? But it’s
true. Like there’s so many, like it doesn’t matter what industry
you’re in, there’s always news happening. There’s always things happening. And
sometimes it’s that easy. Like, you know, you just sit down for 30 minutes a
week and you turn some news into a, into an email that’s just
simply like, Hey, did you, did you know this was going? It’s
like, wait, you’re not asking for sale, but here’s what you gotta
do. That’s really important. You got to always include a
call to action. Every email. Here’s why you want to train
people to open your emails. And then you want to train them to click
on your emails cause then they hit your site. So when you send that sale email,
they’re used to opening and clicking. So what you do is ideally you set up a
blog on your site or someplace with lots of content. Like if you can
create content and you know, put out one blog post a week or whatever,
just like as much content as you can, you can leverage that on your email
channel to keep your list engaged and active. It’s extremely effective. But what you do is you send this content
email like, Hey, did you see this news? You kind of make it click
baity and then people click. And then not only did they
get pixeled on your site, so you can send them an ads, but also
they get used to clicking on your emails. And they’re engaging
with your content, right? They’re engaging with your email list.
The more engaged your email list, the more money you’re gonna make.
So content is a great email to send. Like I also said earlier,
it’s like, you know, you know what customers
are already asking, you know what their top objections
are. Like if a customer calls you, like if you can close, I know
like clients come to us, you know, and they’re like, listen, we
can close anybody on the phone. Like if we get them on the phone, it’s
game over. And we’ll say, okay, great. What questions do people have when
they’re on the phone with you? And they’re like, okay, well they’re
not sure about this. Like a, you know, the shipping or they’re not sure if it’s
going to fit or what if they don’t like it, you know, whatever the product is. And then we’ll actually take it one
step further and instead of, you know, waiting for that person to give a
call or to send a support email, we’ll email it leading up to the
sale, like objection busting content. So it’s like, Hey listen, like just,
just wanting to make sure you knew. Like, listen, we have a free exchange policy so you
never have to worry about ordering the wrong size. Cause if you do, we’ll just ship you a new one of
the right size so on and so forth. And this can even trickle down into your
automated emails to like if you have abandoned cart emails and you notice like, let’s say you have a free
shipping threshold of $50
and you’re getting a lot of abandoned carts under $50. Like
what is their number one objection? They don’t want to pay
that shipping price. So you just slip on
that shipping discount. You don’t have to give
them like 20% off, 50% off. Like I’ve seen some crazy
things just to get the sale. When most people would convert for free
shipping because that’s their objection. So you can do that with your onetime
sends as well leading up to the sale throughout the year because then what
happens is it’s like the conveyor belt, you’re taking these objections off
the table and before you know it, the final objection remains. It’s like,
okay, it’s like price or whatever. But leading up to that point, the people who are going to buy at
full price they’ve already bought. And then when you pull that lever
on black Friday or whatever, you just make it rain because
they have no other objections. Like what if this doesn’t fit? What if
this, like it just makes a ton of money. And then the third thing you can do is
like if you run an apparel or like a jewelry company or whatever, like we have a lot of clients in those
spaces and it’s like, okay, what do I, what do I make content about?
Well, you can kind of, you know, figure out some unique ways to do
content or you can just simply, you know, be like a lookbook and share different
styles or even just showcase your product catalog. Cause the reality is, you know,
let’s say you have a thousand skews, let’s even say you just have 50 skews. Like nobody’s going to sit through your
website and scroll through every page. Like people’s attention spans are shot. Like they scroll through Facebook and
like what does the new on like tick talk or whatever that the kids are on now. And it’s just like these like
five second videos or whatever. Like that’s how long people
are spending on your site. They’re not going to click
through all those pages. You can use email to show people like,
Hey look, we have these other products. You can show your high margin
products and so on and so forth. In a really targeted way like by
this, and the best part is like, it’s pretty much free because you
don’t have to spend money on ads. Yeah, I’ve seen the thing that I like the
look book idea or actually and this only works for the brands that, you
know, if you’re selling, you know, parts of go inside an engine or
something, maybe not new, not so cool, but there are Vitamins probably not a
good idea for a lookbook. Well, but even, okay, so if you
tell them vitamins, you know, you could the people using the
vitamins, I guess, I don’t know, like these healthy people
and green, you know, green shakes and that sort of
thing. So you could start to, it’s almost like your own version
of Instagram, Graham on email. Basically on that. You
could scroll through, look at some pictures real quick
and it kind of shows people, Hey, I can like open this and just
kinda get some value real quick. And it’s not this like
heavy handed thing. Okay, I’m going to have to go through and it’s
a 10 paragraph email and it’s all about buy this, buy this. It’s more, I’m just
going to look, look through real quick, see some cool photos. And at the end,
like you said, there’s a little, you know, free shipping coupon or whatever it is.
It doesn’t even need to necessarily, it sounds like tie in directly with it. Cause if you have a lookbook it kind of
just giving an offer at that and then, Oh by the way, if you like this, here’s
a coupon and they know to open it every, you know, every time you send it
they’re going to open it. Look, throw. You’re not really asking
if they have them, just kind of showing them here’s some
cool things. If you want to see more, I’ll click through, go to our blog,
here’s some page with some photos. It makes it really easy and it’s easy
to generate that kind of content. Yeah. People hate being sold but they love
buying and what you do is you take their guard down. Like it’s really, you know, it’s like funny because by adding value
you end up making more money from people because they have their
guard down. They think, Oh I’m not going to open this
email cause I’m going to be sold. They don’t think that at all. But they do. When you’re just blasting out
discounts, they think, Oh, they just want my credit
card. They just want my money. They don’t actually care about me. But
if you actually care and they’re like, Oh, what is this? And it’s like, Oh, like it actually they’re excited
to get an email from you. Like that’s when you know
you’re doing things right. Yeah, I like that because
if you think about most, most of us fall burns on
Instagram. And all the brands, they’re not on Instagram.
You kinda you, you know, visits like thing where it, you
know, put photos, put cool photos. You’re not going to sell to everyone. Maybe one out of every
20 there’s a sale photo, but you’re not really trying to sell on
Instagram. You’re showing cool photos, part of that brand. Right. You could do that same thing with
email and it really, like you said, lowers the, I’m just going to dread
it. I have to open this every day. Kind of click through Marcus,
right. And go to my next one. You actually going to open it and
scroll through it and look at though. And on Instagram I follow burns STO and
just to, Hey, look at the, you know, maybe a watch brand, right? Where
let’s look, look at these cool photos. And when they come up with a
new product, it’s like, Ooh, let’s actually on that jump through and
see more details about that product. And we do this with Instagram and
brands. Email really is a smart idea. Yeah. And what’s crazy too is like
a lot of brands will think, Oh, we’re not gonna make any money from
that. Why should we send it like a lot, like even our clients will be
like, Hey, can we send more? Like, we were making a ton of money. Can we
send more? It’s like, well, you know, you don’t want to fatigue your
list, but what’s crazy is like, we see like even when
we’re sending content, like we’ll send people to a content
piece on the website and that email will generate thousands of dollars in sales. Because like what will
happen is like number one, like if you can even insert the piece
into the content that works really well too. Like if it’s just kind of like
a subtle thing, it’s like, Oh Hey, here’s a great article. And then at
the end of the article it’s like, Hey, by the way, this or they’ll just hit the site and
then before you know it they’re like, Oh yeah, by the way, I’ve
been meaning to, you know, get another pair of pants from these
guys or whatever. And once again, it’s like they don’t feel like
they’re being sold so they convert. And what’s also crazy too is like, we’ve seen open rates go up with clients
like dramatically just by doing this. Like we didn’t use any fancy subject
line. I mean our subject lines are good, but like we’re not using some hack,
we’re not using some like, you know, manipulative thing. Like we’re
not throwing in like, Oh, let’s throw in an emoji and see if that
makes people open more. It’s like, no, we’re just like starting to add
value. And just like you said, like it trains people to like lower
their guard down and just like, Oh this is going to be good. Like what,
what is, what am I getting this time? Which is really cool. Yeah. I’ve got a couple of years ago it
was all about hacks where you know, you, you had to send you emails Thursdays
at 4:34 PM and that was the best day. And like everyone had like this time
that like you have to do it at this day, at this time. And then like you said, the subjects became a thing and then
emojis on the subjects for a different thing. And then people thought, well
you definitely don’t want to put it. And then it turned to no emojis.
Definitely don’t do that. Yeah. Cause everyone’s doing emojis now. It’s like all emojis in the inbox
and yeah. It’s just back and forth. Yeah. I can only get somebody those
little clapping and rocket chips every, every day. Right. Or like fire, fire, fire. Yeah. What sort of content? So let’s say you’re a brand where you
actually want to do some written content. I’ve had a guest on here the other day
talking about he sells vitamins and you know, different things of that on how
you can use them, different things. There’s a lot of content
you can generate on a bash. But how about things with
let’s say clothing you know, you’re a clothing retailer. How do you actually generate content for
some of these other brands where maybe it’s not so much about how to use a
product but it’s more just about a visual is, is there a content you can generate other
than photos or would you go right to photos if it’s a visual type product? I mean I think photo is huge and
email like don’t get me wrong, like we send out photos and
pretty much every email, I mean I’m all photos or just, Oh this is an email with any text content
or is it literally just no like, no, no, no, no. It’ll have, it’ll have texts
like always store copy on an email. But like photos are a big part of what
we do because email is like one of those things where it’s like the whole
email is basically a headline. Like you open the email, you’ve
got to catch people’s attention. And if it’s too small, if it’s
not eye-catching, you know, people are just gonna be an add on to
the next email cause they have a million emails in their inbox. And that’s if you’re lucky enough
to get him to open your email. So you do want it to look good and
get their attention. But like, yeah, what kind of content can you
send? If you, let’s say you’re, you’re a fashion brand, it’s like, Oh,
I can’t send any content. Like, I mean, the look book is a great idea,
but I mean like, okay, Dylan, you already said that. All right,
cool. Well I have some more ideas. So here’s what you can do. Like one thing we’ve seen brands you
really successfully as like, okay, what is your brand about? Because a
lot of brands are about something. So, you know, maybe your brand
is a lot more outdoors-y. So you create content on the
outdoors. Maybe, you know, let’s say your brands like let’s take
like movement watches for example, right? Like they’re all about
adventure and things like
that. So like, notice how like, they’re not just selling watches, it’s like they’re selling this lifestyle
of adventure and like travel and all these things. So if you look at their
content, like what are they doing? They’re doing travel videos,
they’re doing travel blog posts, they’re doing like, you know, best
destination and things like this. Like, you don’t have to necessarily
make it like about the product. And I think that’s where a lot of
people get hung up. You can actually, you know, just simply take a step
back and be like, okay, you know, what is our brand about? What are
our customers about? And you know, just kinda think like, Oh, you
know, my customers, my friend. Usually your customer is a
person like you. It’s like, what kind of content do they
want to see? Like, what, what article would I share
with them? Or like what would, what would they find interesting? So I think movement’s a
great example for that. Those movies do a lot of brilliant
content or is it more because I actually follow a couple of watch brands. They all give to all people like
using the watch and some, you know, it’s like a diver’s watch
and it’s someone you know, on the art deck doing some cool thing,
you know, like I’ll never do that. But I liked the watch. Oh, someone like
in the woods, you know, doing something. Or actually it’s always like a
pilot with a watch on, you’re like, well I don’t know how to fly a
plane but I like to watch. Right. What would you actually put though as it, could you just do all photos or is
there actually some content on the watch brand, the aviation watch? Would you actually kind of include
some sort of text in there? Like what would that hook be? Yeah, I mean like it depends on
your customer, right? Like, I mean, if it’s a high end watch, like people
are gonna care about the story behind it, they’re going to care about like
the components that make it up. And that’s really like one of our
clients is a watch brand actually. And so like, we’ll dive into kind of the specifics
of like how it’s made because like a lot of brands have these really interesting
products that have like a lot of care and consideration that go
into them. But then it’s like, it just gets like one little line
on the product page. Like, Oh, we have this strap or
we have this movement. It’s like nobody knows what that
is. Like, I’m like, even like, like if you think of a brand
that’s like movement watches, where it’s like most people buying their
watches you know, if you know watches, like you know, there’s different
types of movements, right? There’s like an automatic
movement and things like that. But like the average person buying a
movement watch doesn’t know what that is. So you can create content
around that. Like, Hey, listen, this movement watch is really cool.
Like, it doesn’t require a battery, this and that. Stuff like that.
So like that’s kinda like our, I mean you think about your
customers, right? And then test it. Like that’s what’s great about marketing
and that’s what’s great about email. I was like, what are people engaging
with? Are they engaging with video, do more video content? Are
they reading written content? Like maybe you sell a high ticket product. That people have a lot of objections so
they’re going to want to read a lot of content. Maybe it’s helpful
for them to watch a review. Video reviews are another great
form of content to send. You know, customer generated content
like our people, you know, real people wearing the watch,
real people wearing the clothes, real people who are reviewing the product. Like especially if it’s a
high ticket item. You know, if you have any affiliates who
have reviewed your products, sending out content based on, you
know, just even saying like, Hey, check out this affiliate review. It doesn’t even have to be
your own content that you’re
sending people do cause you’re still training people to click. And buy from emails and you’re still
taking their objections off the table because they read that review and then
they changed their opinion and you know, they open up their mind to your product
a lot more than when before they, you know, maybe weren’t
interested in buying yet. I like that. So what, what would the, are there any surprises you kind of see
coming up in the next 12 months on, Hey, you know, this was working really
great and last year, the last 12 years, but it’s going to start dying off or any
kind of things like that where it just, it people should stop doing or it’s just
been a big kind of guts or something you see coming that was
a little unexpected. Yeah, I mean, I think like as
fast as the industry moves, it’s still is like really slow where
like things aren’t going to like rapidly change overnight unless, you
know, something big happens
with like, for example, Facebook or you know, like there’s like the tricky part
about something like SMS is like, there’s still a lot of litigation around
it because it’s such a new and intimate form of communication that’s not
saying, you know, don’t do it, but just be careful, you know, with
stuff like that. But on the email side, like it’s just you know, people are getting the same old emails
every single day from your competition. Like a lot of brands, we’ve been
copied their competitions emails, like, you’re not, you’re not
gonna make any more money. You’re not going to beat your
competition by copying them. And you’re definitely not going to be
your competition by not emailing. Like, if you’re, like, so many brands come to
me and they’re like, Hey, Dylan, like, listen, like, you know, I just feel like
we could be doing better. And I’m like, okay, well tell me about your email
marketing. And they’re like, well, we have this amazing list. It has like
300,000 people on it, or like, you know, an insane amount of people on it.
And I’m like, okay, great. Well, how many of those people are actually
opening your emails? They’re like, well, like 40,000. It’s like, okay, 40,000
of 200,000 so, or 250,000, 3000, whatever it was. That’s
like nobody on your list. Like you have a 40,000 per
person email. It’s not 300,000. How does the list get to that
point? You’re not emailing, you’re just spraying and praying these
discounts every few months and people forget about you. And the reality is
like, you know, people used to say like, Oh, you should send a win back email to get
the customer to come back at like 180 days and a year. Well, that’s way too
long. Like we find with our clients, like most people, if they
don’t come back after 50 days, they’re never coming back again. And
it’s just like that number drops off. Like after you know, day 14, that number just keeps getting
smaller and smaller until day 50. It’s like they’re not coming back.
So you really gotta strike fast. Like that’s one thing that’s
changing. And number two, it’s like, just send an email like it’s
29 or 2020, well it’s 2019 now, but like it’s in 2020. Like if
you’re still not emailing your list, like I mean it’s just, it’s stupid because it’s free money
sitting inside of your business. Like not like you don’t have to spend
more on ads, you don’t have to, you know, do some crazy thing and
your conversion rate, like one of the highest ROI things you
can do is just start emailing your list, being consistent about it. And you’ll make a ton more money and
that’s going to enable more scale on the front end. Because like I
was saying in the beginning, like you get a higher lifetime value, like one of our client’s businesses
literally tripled because, and I was like, what happened? And he
told me like, listen, now that we’re getting a higher lifetime
value out of our customers because we have email on the backend
that’s consistent. I can spend more on the front end on ads
and just enable the whole next level of scale in the business. Like if you
want to grow your business in 2020, stop looking for the next marketing hack. If your email marketing isn’t on point, like get that sucker
locked in first thing. Like it’ll only take you the first
quarter to get it set up and going. And then from there on you can
just ride it to profits down. And then Q four comes, your
list is nice, warmed up, engaged people are loving your emails.
Like you look at a brand like Chubbies, like everybody loves their emails. Like how can you be the Chubbies of
your industry and hopefully you’re not competing with them. Yeah, we don’t want to visit a
profit town. There you go. So yeah, profit town when you see, so
will grown these big email lists. But I guess actually that’s a good, good
question right there. How do you get, how do you actually entice
people to get on your email list? I know this year what you’ve seen a lot
of folks who is that little popup on, you want a you know, want a 20% discount,
I want a discount, give us your email, we’ll send you a coupon. And that’s kinda
the, you know, the hook onto the list. Is that something you still see working
right now or is that gonna start? Cause I feel like those tactics
start to burn out eventually. Where does a little property go to
the side and Hey do you want 5% off, give a shit. You know, we’ll
email you a coupon. And that’s, I think that’s like the 2019 thing
right now. Where is that gonna go? Is that keep going to keep working or
people kind of getting a little burnt out from that one? Yeah, that’s a great question. I mean like what we’re seeing is like
people aren’t necessarily getting burnt out yet, but I mean it’s
kinda like everything. Like people are now expecting it, but there’s people real
random people like you know, like your aunt or your uncle or whoever
who are abandoning cards because they figured out it’s a thing. But I mean that just means you just got
to keep testing and keep looking at your numbers. But no, I think, you know, email
capture tools like, you know, adjust, you know, or an optin monster
privy, something like that. It’s still a great way
to grow your email list. And I don’t see it going anywhere
yet, but I mean it’s just like email. Like it’s so like occasionally you’ll
come across one and you’re like, wow, this one is great. I’m like, try your
best to, to, you know, make it like that. And same with your emails. Like
everybody, it’s like, Oh, like here’s it. Are people going to open your emails
and say, Oh, this is a typical email. Are people gonna land on
your site and be like, Oh, here’s another one of these crappy
popups in snipe and mobile optimized. You’re like, it’s not like some people don’t even
have them connected to your email list. Like big brands. Like I’ll go and I’ll
just, you know, cause I’m an email guy, I like going on unsubscribed
email lists for fun. So that’s like a weird thing in itself. But like some brands that
really have a connected or they, they’ll send out like one email. You know, I mean that’s still a
great way to your list. And then also to like I’m just like, people send so much
traffic to their website. So like there’s different ways you can
do it where it’s like if somebody leaves your site, you know, with exit
intent you can target them. One thing we’ve seen that works really
well with clients is if you position your offer around like your sales. So
like if it’s, you know, for example, black Friday or whatever the sale is, you’re running new year sale what
you can do is like, say like, instead of just like, Oh, it’s a
discount for no reason. I’m like, Hey, you can just be like and you’re like, we’re running our black Friday
promotion right now for 20% off. Unlock the discount code. You still get the email as the lead and
you end up converting a lot more people because then you can
follow up with emails, Buster objections like we talked about
in the beginning and go from there. I like that cause I feel like you would
always have some sale and it always kind of gives us like time horizon, right? Where give us your email
for the black Friday sale. Give us for the Christmas
sale, new ESL. I dunno, the Valentine’s day sale after that,
there’s just, you can always keep, you know, this father’s
day, mother’s day, whatever. Oh my goodness. Yeah. You’d be surprised. Like we have a whole list like by
industry that we use for our clients. Like for example, we’ve a client in
the you know, like the pet industry, there’s like puppy day and after puppy
day there’s Chihuahua day and after Chihuahua day it’s like cat
pod day. Like it’s so funny. There’s so many different, you know,
excuses in the holidays. Anyway, just a quick side note. No, I liked that because that
gives that kind of, you know, time pressure onto it, right? Where
yes, you’re not just saying, yes, give us your email, 5%
discount. It’s just this very, and because that person
knows I’m not ready to buy, I’ll just come back next week and they
don’t come back next week and it’s over. But if you say the black Friday sale
and black Friday is a hope by Sunday, they know, okay I have to do it right now. I have to get the coupon I have to buy. So it puts us time pressure on that
you don’t otherwise get by the generic, just email for our coupon, sort
of a sort of trade right there. So that gives you this like this very, it drastically increases
a time, an increase, decrease the time, increases the
pressure right there. And you could put, you could do that forever so you could
always just keep manufacturing your own sail forever. That’s always two weeks
away. So the person can’t say, Hey, I’ll be back or I’ll, I’ll remember.
They know they have to do it now, Right? Yeah, yeah. I mean you can even
alternate it month to month. Like, you know, January, it’s your
new year sale. February, it’s your Valentine’s day sale. And
that’s one thing too. It’s like, just like little next
level things like that. Like everyone’s looking for the
next hack or the next, you know, live what’s the app like get out of my
Shopify store. But it’s like really, it’s like you can just do
something as simple as, you know, switch the wording from you know, new year’s sale to Valentine’s day and
you’ll get more conversions just because you know, like it’s like you
said, if it feels more urgent, all of these things and you
know, it’s still honest. Like the one thing that’s really bad
is like false scarcity because people really get used to that and then
they really get annoyed. You know, they’ll unsubscribe like crazy.
The market is spam and you know, they’ll take it out on your
customer service team really bad. Yeah. Well I think what the sale is, you really can have a sale and you really
can have specific items that maybe fit better with Christmas, might fit
better with father’s day, mother’s day. Like you click 100% like
those they actually make
sense because you really could have certain items that really do
work and you can really send any, it’s really tailored to that holiday. So it’s not just like fake thing that
you’re manufacturing. Like you said, it really is. You know, if you sell, you know if you sell tires you might
not want to have a mother’s day sale. Might not make so much sense, but you want to have things do fit and
they make sense and you can see where certain holidays fit in
for your particular brand. 100% yeah. That’s the biggest thing is like don’t
just take advice as one size fits all. Like tailor it to your brand,
tailor it to your market. What other things would you do to kinda, what other things would you
trade for an email address? So I get kind of the coupon, the 5% off. Are there any of the kind of clever
little trades you found on, Hey, give us your email and we’ll give you X? Yeah. Like a giveaway is
a really good one that, that we’ve seen work
really well. You know, and then you just pull someone from a hat
basically. I mean, you don’t actually, like you do all virtually, but like he essentially pulled the person
from the hat once a month. You know, and then you can do some cool things
like, Hey, you didn’t win, but like, then you still, you can pull a lever
on a discount or you know, something. One other thing that’s cool is
like free gift with purchase, like limited time only orders
over X dollars. Get this. Like a lot of brands will even be doing
offers like this already. Or like, you know, free shipping. Even
like, I mean test everything. That works really well depending on your
brand. Like I know Tortuga backpacks, like they’ve always done Mike a, you know, get a packing list because they
sell like a travel bag and you know, that does really well. So like
if you can squeeze, you know, something that’s not sale related for
an email address, like that’s awesome. The free gift. That’s a good one too. There’s definitely little things
like that that if you can just, it could be small, it doesn’t
need to be high in monetary value, but you are giving away something
for free. And like you said, even the list that’s, it’s even something virtual basically
that you can just give a free, there is no, there’s no
scarcity to that. But people, if people really do appreciate that, then
it’s something you’re really trading, it’s something of value but it
doesn’t really cost you anything. So that’s really just things like that
and a real kind of things to try at least for your brand to see if it works. Yeah, for sure. I mean test it and I mean, chances are you have something lying
around that you could even use already. Like you know, like look book or you
know, something like that and test it. What’s great is like, you know, we have this data so you can run
it against a diff discount and see, and then you can look at the
back and it’s like, okay, we’re getting lower conversions but
because we’re not giving 20% off, we’re actually making more
money or, or whatever. So like that’s a number advice. The number
one advice I have for people is like, you know, just tests. Like that’s what’s great about email or
that’s what’s great about eCommerce is we have the data. So instead of
just, you know, assuming like, Oh, this is the best subject line cause I got
it from my friend or I read an article about it or you know, whatever, you know, you don’t take it
implemented in your store, AB tested and then you can actually
find out and you might find out that, you know, there’s no difference at all
or it could be big enough that, you know, you end up making a lot more money. Awesome. All right, super helpful. I think I think a lot of people should
at least start looking at this if they haven’t looked at email
2020. So yes, that guys, so they go if people want to find you, learn more about you have the podcast Where can people listen to the podcast
and what can they also learn more about what you’re doing? Yeah. So you listen
to my podcast at wave break, podcast.com. Or you just look up wave podcast
in iTunes. You can find our [email protected] where you just
Google wave break, w a V E B R. E. a. K. and I just remembered like if you want, everything I talked about is
something that like, I mean, I know I talked about a
lot and you’re like, okay, well like what do I even do first? So I
actually have a checklist. It’s called, I call it the email success checklist. It’s basically a list of
everything I talked about. Like, here’s everything you need
to be successful with email
marketing less than five minutes. What you can do is, you know, literally set it next
to your email software, go through it and unless if five minutes
to know exactly what you’re missing and then what you need to do to take your
email marketing to the next level. Like it’s that simple. You can pick
that [email protected] Yeah, email success checklist.com.
Awesome. I will link to that show notes. Thank you very much for coming on
today, Dylan. I appreciate it. Yeah, thanks for having me. It’s always, it’s always good to be on the business
of eCommerce podcast and always going to be talking about email. Yeah. Maybe
we’ll do another episode next year. We’ll do this. We’ll make
it an annual thing. Awesome. Talk to you soon. Have a good
one. Thanks for having me again.

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