April 7, 2020
How to Streamline Your Ecommerce Marketing Approach w/ PushOwl & UWP

How to Streamline Your Ecommerce Marketing Approach w/ PushOwl & UWP


Miz Trujillo
Hello everyone and welcome to the Make Merchants Money podcast by Underwaterpistol, we will
be discussing everything Shopify and ecommerce related. I am your host, Miz Trujillo and today we’re
looking at how to streamline your ecommerce marketing approach. Absolutely delighted to have two guests with
us today. We have Kunal on the show he is head of sales
and partnerships over at Push Owl. Push Owl is a great Shopify app which enables
you to reengage with previous store visitors by sending them push notifications directly
to their mobiles or web browsers. Thank you so much for being on the show Kunal. Kunal Konde
Glad to be here, excited to get started. Miz Trujillo
And also with us today is Alan Rooney digital strategy and PPC specialist here at Underwaterpistol. Thanks for talking with us today Alan. Alan Rooney
No problem. Thanks for having me. Miz Trujillo
So to jump right in, Kunal, we live in an age where we’re constantly bombarded by information
and Push Owl seems like a great way to stand out, get a message through to previous store
visitors and convert them into sales, which is what everyone cares about. Could you tell us a bit more about the app
and how it could help Shopify store owners with their marketing approach? Kunal Konde
Yes. So in a nutshell, Push Owl is a push notification
platform for Shopify stores, everybody is pretty familiar with push notifications on
their mobile devices, you must have seen alerts pop up on your phone whenever somebody is
following you on Twitter, or sending you a friend request on Facebook. So these alerts show up on your device telling
you what happened. That is a push notification. So what we do is we take that power and utility
to the web. Now, that itself sounds pretty awesome. But Push Owl l goes way beyond that. One of the Golden Rules of marketing is sending
the right message at the right time to the right person. There’s a whole bunch of advanced features
like smart delivery and segmentation which helps you do just that. And that’s exactly why ecommerce businesses
are using Push Owl. Miz Trujillo
That’s amazing, excellent, I think we’d all agree that obviously it’s never enough to
just have one thing working right. I’m sure our listeners would agree that a
good ecommerce marketing strategy requires a lot of time, thought and planning, even
having a good product isn’t enough on its own. So Alan maybe, would you say that there’s
any steps listeners should be taking in their ecommerce marketing, before they start sending
these push notifications out, so that these are as effective as possible? Alan Rooney
Well, I guess the first thing would be, one of the main mistakes that I see a lot of Shopify
and even ecommerce sites doing, is that they’re relying on one channel and to be honest, if
you if you are relying on one channel, that’s a recipe for disaster. Like, I see especially the way Facebook and
Instagram is at the moment it’s underpriced, so a lot of people are going all in on that
and if it’s working for you, you know, happy days, but you kind of need to audit where
your revenue is actually coming in at the moment. If you are relying only on the likes of Facebook
and Instagram you know when the when the CPM is triple in a year or two and you’re not
getting the return on ad spend that you were in the past and you haven’t looked into the
likes of push or email and stuff like that, you’re going to be in trouble. So I guess first steps would be auditing. You know, usually what we do with with our
clients would be like a workshop or an initial analytics audit to see how each channel
is performing and then seeing where it is that you can drive more revenue. And I guess push notifications is one of the
most undervalued channels that I’m seeing at the moment. I guess this is why we’re having this
first conversation anyway, so I guess that’s probably your first step. Miz Trujillo
Absolutely. I think one of the one of the main issues
people face is definitely abandoned carts. I know that according to a report by Baynard
Institute, and I’ll link the reports in the description below, 69.89% of shopping carts
are abandoned. This is a lot money being lost and a lot of
stress that’s caused, Kunal, maybe from your experience, how can Push Owl help with overcoming
this scenario? Kunal Konde
Yeah. So just building on what Alan said before
that, you know, having just one channel is a recipe for disaster. So the usual methods of cart recovery where people
are using emails or SMS, or even Facebook Messenger for that matter, they are great. But the problem there is that, what happens
when you don’t have your visitors personal details to get in touch with them and notify
them about the abandoned cart? How can you recover those? And that’s exactly where push notifications
shine. One of the biggest advantages of Web Push
is their ability to target even those carts where you don’t have any personal details. So yeah, so that makes it a pretty powerful
tool for recovering abandoned carts and just increasing your bottom line. Alan Rooney
Push is a very effective way of getting people back into back into the funnel you know. One thing I’d say is people are spending all
this money being on Google Shopping, Instagram, Facebook ads and stuff like that, you want
to be giving each, with the amount of money your spending you want to get basically as
much sales as possible out of that and then if you’re spending all your money in retargeting
and stuff like that, the ad spend can rack up very quickly. So having push notifications on that
abandoned cart, I guess Kunal would be in a better place to say how many push notifications,
but in terms of other channels, email marketing is always one of the better ones for getting
people back in the door. Usually we’d recommend, I mean there’s a few
very good email platforms that sync with Shopify, but we usually recommend at least three automations
over the space of, you know, maybe 72 hours or a bit longer than that. And usually, you know, maybe the final email
would be some sort of enticement, like a discount or something like that. And after three; from the data that we’ve
seen, I think people kind of get the impression that they’re being pestered and I
guess after three, if they haven’t converted, then it’s probably time to leave them alone. So yeah, I mean you have your regular ones
like retargeting and stuff like that, but like I was saying that can get expensive quickly. So email and push, I think are two staples
that you really need to have to get people back in. Miz Trujillo
Kunal is there anything you’d add to that maybe? Kunal Konde
Pretty much agree with what Allen says, even we have seen similar kind of data where after
three it does get a little bit irritating and annoying, but in the case of push one
thing is sure, that since the messages themselves are so small and the notification takes maybe
two to five seconds to read in its entirety, it’s pretty relevant and pretty time sensitive
notifications that you’re sending people to remind them about, you know, completing the
purchase. So in that case, instead of having to spread
it over a 72 hour time period, you can probably have it over 24 to 48 hours instead, so that
does give people really good results. Miz Trujillo
Thank you Kunal, now that leads on to a point I wanted to touch on anyway, how do we avoid
seeming overly intrusive to customers? It’s something that people are really bothered
about at the moment. How do we actually get them to say yes to
push notifications when they have so many distractions around them at the moment? Kunal Konde
That’s a good question. So I think there’s two parts of this. First is the subscription itself. And the second part is the frequency at which
you’re sending those campaigns be it through push notifications, or emails or any other
channel for that matter. So for the first part, the major reason why
these prompts and pop ups might seem so intrusive or distracting or annoying is because websites
these days, they just have so many of them which start popping up the moment
someone visits the website, we have something asking you to sign up for an email newsletter,
something else asking you to agree to cookies, and then so on and on and on. So it gets pretty overwhelming for visitors
to deal with these problems. Even before they’ve had a chance to properly
check out the store. I’ll give an example, imagine you’re asking
out a girl you have just met, if she says no the first time, it probably isn’t a good
idea to ask her again just a couple of minutes later to see if she’s changed her mind. Miz Trujillo
Absolutely. Alan Rooney
I have to follow that piece of advice. Kunal Konde
So we have applied that same philosophy to our UX. So Pusl Owl has an inbuilt safety feature
that prevents the subscription form from being shown repeatedly. So if someone dismisses it the first time,
they won’t see it again, for the rest of the session. And another feature that we have is giving
our users the option to add a time delay to the pop up, and they can customize it differently
for their mobile and desktops. So instead of having like, you know, all of
these email pop ups and the one for cookies, and the ones who are push notifications all
showing up at the same time, you can add a delay to them, just to ensure that the people
who you’re showing that particular browser form to are genuinely interested in your store
and getting updates from you. So that is definitely something that deals
with this huge, you know, this big issue where people find it extremely irritating. And the the second part of it is when it comes
to campaigns, we always encourage users to be very respectful of the subscribers and
send notifications only at a frequency which matches the purchasing habits of the target audience. Alan Rooney
Yeah, I think just just to add on to that, I mean, the whole of people’s attention is
a very, it’s a very fragile thing and once it’s gone, like, there’s a million companies
that abuse people’s attention, you know, and once you’re classified or filtered as that
company it’s very hard to get them back on track. So when I’m thinking of this, you know, if,
we’re running like email sequences and stuff like that, I try to think even back to myself,
my own email account or whatever it is, and I think; Jesus, I mean, which companies do
I just look at, and just roll my eyes like. Companies like Groupon, like they built their
whole company based on email marketing, if I see a Groupon email in my email account,
it’s straight to spam, because they completely abuse that you know and you don’t care about
it anymore;and I guess like the people listening this podcast I’m sure have have different
examples of companies that just either they over retarget, every time they open up their
Facebook, or whatever it is that they’re getting a retargeting in their newsfeed and stuff
like that. So I mean, you do have to be very careful. What a lot of companies do is that they see
the results coming in and they think, Oh, great we’re getting a great return on this,
but what they’re forgetting is that, yeah, people hate your brand now and after a year
or so they won’t, they won’t even want to look, they’ll get sick at the sight of you,
you know? So you have to be very careful that you’re
striking a balance between getting a good return, but also that you’re not like pestering
people, you have to make sure that you’re doing it in an elegant way and also that you
were providing value. Like I mean, of course, you know, discounts
and all that kind of stuff is great, but I mean, you can push all sorts of things, like
you can push content their way that they’re actually getting value out of not just you
know, bye, bye, bye. You know. So I guess it’s a combination of things. Miz Trujillo
Well, that’s the thing, isn’t it? If people are going to get a message through,
especially on their mobile devices, they want it to be something that they’re actually interested
in, ideally, something that’s really useful to them and if this is tied in with a product
that they actually want to buy, then you’ve really got something going there haven’t you? I wanted to touch on comparing push notifications
to web based retargeting ads as well, because it falls in line with a lot of conversations
I’ve had, people can find those a bit intrusive, sometimes I think people forget that their
internet history is being used in this way and that can end up in some rather strange
results popping up from time to time too. Kunal maybe, would you say that the more direct
approach of push notifications is its main benefit, or is there an anything else you’d
highlight when comparing the two? Kunal Konde
I mean to be honest comparing retargeting ads with push notifications is a bit like
comparing apples and oranges. Yes, there are a few similarities, but for
most part, they are two very different champions. I mean, the one thing that’s common between
the two of them is that essentially they are a method of retargeting. Push Notifications, yes, they are a really
good method of reaching your customers directly on their screens so compared to retargeting,
yes, it’s a much more direct method where you’re showing the notification at the time
that matters the most. Because in the case of a retargeting ad you
need to be on your device browsing through Facebook or maybe Google or something in order
to actually see the add, that’s not the case for push notifications. To give you an example one of the biggest
success stories that we’ve had when it comes to comparing retargeting ads with push notifications
and how stores are actually using them is from this Australian Shopify plus fashion
brand which is using push. So during one of my monthly calls with them
they told me that their retargeting ad spend has gone down from about $20,000 to just about
$2500, $3,000 per month; and that increased their profit margin; and now they are just
repurposing the amount that they were spending on retargeting ads on maybe different kinds
of ads or different kinds of marketing channels. So this was just like, this was a really mind
boggling factor here from them, that just through using push notifications, they are;
you know, they’re saving such a huge amount of money. And yeah, I mean another really important
advantage that push notifications have is that they’re very immune to the fluctuating
algorithms and the increasing costs that you find on ad platforms like Facebook or Google
and so on, so yeah overall these are the main benefits that people can actually see if you
do end up comparing the two channels. Miz Trujillo
I mean, I’m guessing; and I’m sure Alan you’d have a lot to say about this, that this doesn’t
mean we should only be using one. Is there any suggestions you’d make to tie
the two together in order to form a successful campaign? Alan Rooney
Well, I guess always shaping your funnel to see what stage their at. Ideally the person who’s just visited the
homepage or whatever, like that should be getting a different retargeting message than
someone who has just dropped off at the last stage of the checkout. So i mean like, sometimes people just put
everything in one basket, so people who have purchased as opposed to people who haven’t
purchased, but obviously some people who are further down the funnel you need to place
a higher priority on them, you know. I think going back to the whole thing about
attention, with like Google Display I mean 20 years ago or something like that people
were clicking remarketing ads at a hell of a lot higher rate than they are now. I mean people are just, they just don’t really
click them as much as they used to you know. So I think having these things like Push and
again you know Facebook will become that soon enough, kind of; oh yeah that’s just retargeting,
but at the moment it’s still a bit new you know. But push is something that a lot of ecommerce
sites are under using and the fact that it’s underused means that it gets better clicks. You need to take each retargeting platform
and you know segment it as much as you possibly can, I mean the way you get the best results
is having one to one as much as you possibly can with what the user is actually doing on
your site, so for instance this is why the Dynamic Product Marketing on Facebook and
Instagram is so successful, because you looked at a pair of jeans or you looked at whatever
that particular brand and then it pops up in your newsfeed, you’re not just getting
a general catch all brands banner in your news feed, so it segments your customers or
your potential customers where best they are in the funnel. So I guess this is just the approach you need
regardless of whatever retargeting platform you are using, it needs to be consistent that
you know the person who was top of the funnel isn’t getting the same message as someone
who’s just about to check out or who was abandoned cart. Just that there’s a message match across all
your retargeting platforms, be it Push, be it Facebook or Instagram retargeting, or whatever
retargeting platforms, you use in ad roller, you know, etc. And I guess maybe Kunal if you have anything
to add to that? Kunal Kombe
Not really, I think that pretty much covers everything. Miz Trujillo
The next thing I want to touch on was a survey that was published by Statista which said
that by 2021, more than half of online shopping is expected to happen on a mobile device. Now, I thought that was obviously a great
thing for push notifications, because they can grow rich mobile devices, which makes
them even more valuable, but also means that it’s more important than ever to design sites
with mobile visitors in mind from start to finish. Now, what tips would you give listeners when
it comes to optimizing their sites for mobiles? Alan Rooney
Well, I guess, you know, the first, the obvious thing is that you need to make sure you have
a mobile responsive site. I mean, that’s just the most now. I mean, the one thing that I’m seeing from
the Google Analytics audits that I’m doing, I mean, we have some sites that are 70 – 80%
mobile traffic. I mean, so many people are always like, yeah
but it converts better on desktop. Yeah, but it’s like, you have 80% of your
traffic of your sessions coming from mobile. So you just you can’t ignore mobile anymore. And the first step is, it needs to be very
easy to complete a check out on mobile, the second thing I would do, you need to put some
sort of CRO strategy together, and conversion rate optimization. So, you know, first of all, you need to make
sure you have the right tracking set setup. I mean, I’d always recommend Hotjar which
which kind of gives you the qualitative and quantitative data. You can set up things like heat maps, and
you can set up funnels, you can set up feedback holds, and you can even set up video recordings
and you can split that, you can get data that’s just for mobile, you can get data that’s just
for tablet and just for desktop. So I mean, you need to have that tracking
set in place and left and then see where people are clicking, where people are dropping off. So for instance, let’s just say, you see people
aren’t clicking, people are dropping off of the product page in particular, you need to
analyze your product pages, you need to move the Add to Cart button around, is it above
the fold on mobile? Is it below the fold? You know, there’s a million and one different
variables, but I guess you need to start somewhere. And I guess once you have the data tracking,
then you need to have some sort of tool for split testing. I mean, the one thing I’d always stress would
be never go with your intuition with CRO, because I’ve seen some crazy things that I
thought, okay, that’ll definitely bring conversion rates up; and, you know, maybe it doesn’t. So everything needs to be data driven. There’s free tools now that you can use, you
can use something like Google Optimize and again, it syncs up with the Google Analytics. So, you know, if you want to run 50% or a
fraction of your traffic onto your new design, your new mobile, be at a product page or whatever
it is and Google will run statistical significance tests on it to make sure that, you know, say,
okay, so 99% sure that this will improve conversion rates, you know, so, I mean, you just you
need to start somewhere. So I guess the first thing I’d say was get
some sort of tracking in place, Hotjar is the one that we use and then you need to get
some sort of way to split test that. Miz Trujillo
And anything you’d add to that Kunal? Kunal Konde
I guess if I had to boil down what Alan said at the end of it. When it comes to optimising sites for mobiles
at the core of it remains the navigation. So everything that he talked about from like,
you know, below the fold above the fold, where the buttons are placed, how the checkout works
and everything. So, like the simple reason being that when
you’re on a desktop, there’s just so much more space for your website to be seen. And like, you know, the kind of filters that
you want to use the kind of product descriptions and buttons and pretty much anything and everything
that you want to show, you just have a lot more space to do it on desktops. But, you know, with more and more people coming
onto mobile, you just have to keep in mind that the navigation is as easy as possible. Miz Trujillo
I mean, it would, it would seem a shame to be able to get push notifications on your
mobile and then click through the notification to the site and it not work well, it’d be
a wasted opportunity really wouldn’t it? Kunal Konde
Yeah, exactly. I mean, if you don’t have a good landing
page, if you don’t have, you know, really nicely designed product pages, then it’s like,
no matter what kind of marketing you’re doing, not just push notification, but even if you’re
doing ads, even if you’re doing like, you know, just organic search and anything for
that matter, if you’re getting people on your mobile, you’re getting people to visit your
website, on mobiles and if it’s just not up to scratch, then yeah, you’re not going to
see results. Miz Trujillo
Absolutely. And I think something that it would affect
is also customer loyalty, if they get on with the site well, they’re more likely to come
back and buy more obviously. It’s something like 22% of retailers revenue
is made up by returning customers and they also spend 15% more over the course of a year
than anyone else. So how would you recommend using push notification
campaigns in order to reward customer loyalty and making this part of an ecommerce marketing
approach? Kunal Konde
Yeah, that’s another good question. Because like, it’s a fairly obvious and well
known fact that it’s much easier to bring back your previous customers to purchase again
from you as compared to say spending on ads or retargeting or anything else to acquire
new ones. So I mean, with Push Owl we have the ability
to segment your subscribers. So you will be able to segment your subscribers
based on if they have previously purchased from you or not. So you can send them, you know, exclusive
deals or coupon codes to just incentivize them to purchase once more. And you can also target the opposite segment,
which is all the non purchasers and give them a different kind of incentive to become your
customers. And another big news that we have on the loyalty
front is that we will be integrating with Smile, one of the most popular loyalty apps
on Shopify, so there’s going to be whole new use case of, you know, loyalty based notifications,
which will be opening up once we create this integration. Miz Trujillo
Amazing, anything you’d add on that customer loyalty front Alan? Alan Rooney
No, I think I’d just echo that, especially the segmenting, so, I mean, you have customers
and they’re all at different stages. I mean, some of them, they’re buying every
month or whatever like that, and they repeat custom, some have just purchased one and have
never come back. So I guess just to echo that you need to segment
based on people, how many they’ve purchased, have they purchased, if they haven’t. So they all need to be put into, I guess,
different buckets, you know, and then they need to get different messages. Miz Trujillo
Absolutely. So it’d be good as well to just focus on the
fact that we’ve got Black Friday and Cyber Monday coming up and then obviously the festive
season after that as well. Are there any good examples of tips you could
share Kunal of using push notification to successfully convert during these periods? Kunal Kombe
I think one of the biggest problem areas where people go wrong with their push marketing
is that they leave it as an afterthought. Yes, you have your emails your SMS, Facebook
Messenger, social media retargeting ads and everything else as your marketing channels,
but then you’re leaving your push notifications as an afterthought, it’s just not going to
convert as well. So my biggest tip here would be integrating
push notifications as a part of your overall marketing strategy, adding a PR marketing
calendar to ensure that you are getting the best results possible from it. And in terms of just sending the push notifications
itself, to be honest, like push is a pretty new channel, it is still being widely adopted,
so there’s not enough data which tells you that, okay, these are the best practices that
you should follow, or these are the types of notifications which are going to convert
well, so I think the best tip that I have for people is just experiment, experiment
and experiment. So just try out different kinds of copy, try
different types of campaigns, just to see which convert better. One step that I have for people is experiment
more and more, because once you’re trying out, you know, different types of campaigns,
different copies in your push notifications, and you get the data from it, which tells
you that a certain type of campaign is performing better than anything else, you’ll realize
for yourself that it makes more sense to add that as a weekly or a monthly campaign in
your marketing calendar calls. Miz Trujillo
Yeah, of course. And Alan any other tips you’d give people
who maybe want to focus on Black Friday, Cyber Monday coming up, and what they can do to
be successful? Alan Rooney
This is a stage where people make some of the most revenue they’re gonna make the whole
year, you know, it means a lot to a lot of different businesses and they really should
have a plan already in place. Kunal touched on that, I mean, they really
need to have the whole strategy ready. It’s only a few weeks down the line. And I guess, once you’ve done that experimenting
that you’re getting a return , I mean, it’s just a case I guess of filling your boots,
you know, getting more sales and getting as much sales in as possible at a return that
you’re comfortable with you know. Because this is the time when people really
have their wallets open, you know. So this is the time when you can make a huge,
huge influence on your business in a positive way. Miz Trujillo
Well, that’s the thing, it’s a great time for people to actually be focusing on getting
those sales in, isn’t it! Before we start wrapping things up, I’m sure
by this point in the podcast all our listeners will be dying to know, Kunal, could you give
us some examples of growth statistics that your clients are seeing from successfully
using push notifications? Just to convince people further. Kunal Konde
Oh, man, this is like, just amazing to watch. The kind of results that our users have been
getting is just like, even beyond what we imagined that they would be getting. So for example, one really surprising statistic,
we found that 87% of people who end up subscribing to push notifications are actually first time
visitors. So since opting in for a push notification
is just one click, you’re getting a whole new class of subscribers who you might not
have gotten via your traditional methods. So with targeted campaigns, and, you know,
Push Owl automated notifications like the ones for cart recovery, stores are able to
add revenue which just wasn’t there before. So in terms of like statistics, , , I’ll give
you one more, which is that the Shopify plus and other core Shopify brands, which are using
Push Owl, they are seeing an ROI of anywhere between $150 to $500, for each dollar that
they are spending on Push Owl; and this kind of ROI is just insane. So yeah, I mean, as and when brands are ramping
up the marketing efforts with push notifications and making use of like, you know, some of
the advanced features that I mentioned earlier, like segmentation and smart delivery and things
like that. This ROI just keeps climbing, you know, even
beyond $500. Miz Trujillo
That’s amazing. Thank you so much Kunal. I think just to start suming things up, maybe
Alan, what are the main tips from what we’ve talked about, you’d leave people with as they’re
trying to streamline theire commerce marketing approach? Alan Rooney
I guess, kind of the low hanging fruit, like you need to get push notifications, I mean,
Kunal pushed on the returns that you get there, I mean, I don’t think we’ve ever seen a 500
to one or 500 quid for each euro spent in the likes of Facebook and stuff like that. So I mean, you need to make sure that you’ve
got your email sequences set up correctly, especially the abandoned cart, re-engagement
sequences, upsell, cross sales, you need to have push notifications setup in a way that
the message is matched with where the user or the customer is on the site; and in terms
of Facebook and in terms of like paid advertising I think, Facebook and Instagram are some of
the best ad products out there. Google Shopping is great as well. I wouldn’t really be touching much other things,
I mean I’ve tried different places like Twitter and stuff but I just haven’t gotten the return
that the likes of Facebook and Google has. So yeah I mean, get Push Owl, I guess if you
haven’t cracked Facebook and Instagram try and figure that out and one thing I’d say
is make sure you get Dynamic Product Remarketing setup on Facebook and Instagram. That’s kind of the low hanging fruit there
so that’s a good start. I mean push notifications and email marketing
automation if you got that setup you’d be doing well. Miz Trujillo
Excellent and Kunal, any any last tips or words of wisdom you’d like to leave people
with? Kunal Konde
Yeah, I mean, what I would say is that I know that push as a channel it still remains a
bit unheard of, not a lot of people might have seen it for themselves and you know like
when you have a really good marketing strategy already in place, it might feel like you know,
you might not be inclined to add yet another marketing channel to the mix and mess things
up. But what I would recommend people on here
is that until you give it a try, don’t judge it and make a decision on it as a channel
because you’ll really be surprised with the kind of results that you see once you start
using push notifications. Miz Trujillo
Well, thank you both so much for being on the show with us, really appreciated talking
to you and thank you to everyone who listens to the show too. You can find links to any of the reports mentioned
and of course to both Push Owl and Underwaterpistol in the description below. And if you need any help with Shopify and
ecommerce you can book a free consultation with Underwaterpistol via the link below
too. Please subscribe to the podcast to keep up
to date with any of the upcoming shows and you can also get involved in the discussion
and receive all the latest news by joining our Make Merchants Money Facebook group. Thanks for listening and thank you Kunal and
Alan for being on the show with us. Alan Rooney
Thanks, guys. Kunal Konde
All right, thank you.

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