January 27, 2020
How to Build a Successful eCommerce Brand

How to Build a Successful eCommerce Brand


This episode of the Business of eCommerce
I talk with Ben Weeder about how to build a truly great brand. This is the
Business of eCommerce, Episode 110. Welcome to the Business of eCommerce. The show that helps
eCommerce retailers start, launch and grow their eCommerce
business. I’m your host, Charles Palleschi and I’m
here today with Ben Weeder. Ben is a founder of chassis,
a men’s skincare product. Ben is also a branding expert, a published author and the
owner of level six marketing, a full service brand
performance agency. I asked, Ben on the show today to talk about how
you can build a truly great brand. So, Hey Ben, how are you doing today? Great, Charles. Thanks.
Thanks for having me. Yeah, awesome to have you on the show.
So it kind of kept it short in the intro, but can you explain what chassis is?
Kinda just throw it at a men’s product, but I think you’d be better
equipped to explain that one. Yeah, well, I appreciate it. Yeah. So, so chassis we’ve really transformed
that men’s grooming really for, for hundreds of thousands of
men at this point. And you know, if you look at the men’s grooming
space, you know, there’s, there’s a clearly defined
roles for, you know, shaving obviously is a very familiar
thing. You know, fragrances, things of that sort. But there’s one area
that we recognize when we launched in, in late 2015 and that was
the area of what we call. And our tagline is man care for down
there basically powder for guys. Guys had been using powder to prevent
sweat and odor and chafing for hundreds of years actually. And but they’ve always been using products
that weren’t actually designed for that purpose. Many times it’s baby powder. Sometimes it’s you know what
they would call medicated powder. A lot of you know, people
are familiar with that term. Usually it smells either
like a baby or an old man. It usually doesn’t work great. It works
okay. So we had this idea, you know, could we make a better powder and
then could we build a brand around it? And that’s what, that’s what chassis
is. So this is actually a habit. Just a, anyone wants to see that’s there’s
one of our products. This is our, our ice powder. And this
is a extra cooling one. I just haven’t had sitting
around and but you know, that’s, that’s kind of what it is. We
have a couple of other products. We have a shower primer and
a a restoration cream that
compliment the powders as well. And you know, it’s been going great. It’s funny, a lot of guys use baby powder. It’s one of those things like the
locker room at the gym, it’s like, Oh, that guy smells like a, you know,
like a three year old, which isn’t, Yeah, yeah, that’s exactly right.
And so we had a theory that guys, if we were upfront about it, if we just had an honest conversation
in a very mature way, not sophomore, that they would respond really well
to it. And, and, and it’s been, it’s been amazing. You know, we’re, we’re number one in our category on
Amazon which is obviously very important place to be one. And you know, we’ve, we’ve actually inspired many followers. So there’s that first mover strategy. We’ve got a whole lot of new competitors
that didn’t exist three years ago, four years ago. And you
know, so now, you know, there’s a little bit of that
playing defense that we’ve
got to do. But you know, to still, you know, maintain
our, our market leadership. Yeah. So how long ago
was it that you started? So it was late 2015. Yeah,
so almost say, you know, early 2016 and you know, when we were fully out there
and you know, it’s, it’s been, it’s been gangbusters ever since. You
know, we grow year over year. You know, we continue to enhance the product
line, introduce new products. We’ve got a new one coming out here before
the end of the year that we’re really excited about that I can’t quite talk
about just yet. You know, so it’s, it’s been great. And so, and before that, so
you currently, you still are, or you were a partner in a
marketing agency as well, right? That’s right, yes. Yeah, I founded a level six we’re a full
service marketing agency in 2005. And you know, when you run a marketing
firm like level six you know, there are regular opportunities
that present themselves, you know, just organically you’re going to talk
to startups and things like that. And oftentimes those
conversations lead to, you know, would you like a little piece of,
of, of this company, you know, in exchange for, you know, services.
And so chassis is an example of that. You know, I was in the
very early days that when, when my cofounders came to me and we
started having the conversation you know, I, I said, look, I, you know, I’d,
I’d like to be a part of this. And so, you know, we, we run everything out of the same office
different teams obviously. But it’s a, it’s a really good model. It’s worked really well for us and
there’s a lot of synergy back and forth. You know, we still have our clients on the
agency side and I’ve got a lot of help, you know, from an employment standpoint with
some great people on the agency side. But I’ve also got a lot
of great teammates on, on the chassis side of things too. Okay. So this was somebody who came
to you with a marketing client. So someone came and they said, I have a different product or they had
some product background and you said, yeah, Well in this case it was
actually my brothers. This was a little unusual. This
one was my brother’s usually, it’s not my brothers, but they came
and said, look, we’ve got this idea. And I said, you know, that’s a good
idea, but I may have a better one. And I just, it’s something that
I had saved for a rainy day. I threw it out there.
They loved it instantly. We worked together to hone
that idea. And then you know, the rest is history. So it took, it took a long time to get it off the
ground because when, you know, the, the dirty little secret of, of the beauty industry or
grooming industry is we would
say for men is that most products are, are what we
call derivative products. So what you would do is you would
go to a chemist and you’d say, I want to make the world’s best powder. And the chemist would normally, well, what’s the best powder
that you know of so far? And I need to start with that formula
and then make it better. Okay. So what’s your benchmark then? I’m just
going to add maybe one new ingredient, maybe a new fragrance. I’ll throw in
a new package and we call it a day. So almost everything you see when you
walk up and down the Isles, you know, of a target, let’s say our
derivative products, they’ve, they’ve evolved over time. You start with whatever you think the
benchmark is and you make it a little bit better. Right. In the world of powder we found
that that wasn’t working. You know, we went through a few chemists who sort
of operated the same way, but you know, we quickly realized that, you know, if you’re just going to take baby
powder and add a different fragrance, it’s not really any better. I
mean, it smells better. Sure. But it’s not really any better. And
that’s it was tough. I mean, we, cause that’s the way that it really works. And at the 11th hour we found a chemist
out of California we were ready to throw in the towel and this guy’s name
is John. And I said, John, look, here’s what we’re trying to do.
I don’t know if you can help us, but we really need to start
from scratch. You know, all new product that’s never been
done before. And he immediately said, I can make you the world’s best
powder. I know how to do this. Cause I’ve actually, he actually
said, I’ve thought about this myself. I’m a powder guy. It’s going to be
expensive, you know, not, not the not his costs, but the,
the actual cost of goods, the formulation itself is going to
be expensive to do what you want. And I said, that’s fine. We don’t care.
We just want the world’s best butter. We’ll figure out how to sell it
later. You know, if it’s good enough, it’s going to sell. So, I mean, to this day where the most expensive
powder out there, you know, I mean it’s, it lasts a long time. You
know, for $20 which is our, our MSRP. I mean, you know,
most people will get, you know, at least three months out of a bottle. Most people get well over six
months out of a bottle. So when you, when you break it down
that way, it’s not bad, but it’s certainly more than a $3
bottle of baby powder, you know? But, but again, we’re out selling
that because there’s value there. People understand that, use it. And
it’s really comparing apples to oranges. When you look at what this stuff does
compared to traditional products, What was she, was it your background
or your brother’s background? Bro. Brothers, right. Plural. Was it one of your brothers background
or your background to Nota engage with a chemist and start that
process? Like how did you even, Yeah. Yeah. So my, my one brother who’s, who’s most active with me in,
in, in chassis, Noah yeah, he actually came from CPG consumer
packaged goods specifically in the, in the grooming areas. So he had
a little bit of a background, just enough to be dangerous. I
mean, he didn’t die, you know, he was more on the sales and marketing
side, but he knew enough to be dangerous. And, and to be honest, it was a lot of
trial and error. I mean, you know, we, we hired and fired three other chemists
before we found John. So, I mean, it gives you an idea you know,
this stuff isn’t easy. There’s, there’s a lot of you
know, trial and error and, and you just gotta kind of work
through. And I think that it really, it’s honestly, chassis is a story of
perseverance because you know, I didn’t understand the
derivative nature of these, of product development and in the
beauty space until we did this. I mean, now that I understand it, I now
understand to explain that, you know, whenever we’re going to develop
a new product that Hey, you know, we’ve got to start with a blank
slate. But the fact of the matter is, I’d say 95% of those out there in this
space, they don’t want to do it that way. You know? So if you, if you
find the right guy or, or the, or the right girl to do
it, you know, you can, you can really make a pretty good
impact in whatever you’re trying to do. Yeah. It sounds like that’s one
of those lessons you would never, I would never think of that going
into it. I think most people wouldn’t, you kind of just go talk to the first
cold people take their word is face value and you know, kind of just say, okay, let’s just add some fragrance on top of
this and call it. That’s, that’s how, that’s how everyone does it. And I will say this, I mean not to sell
ourselves short. I mean we got really, really nerdy in the process.
Okay. I mean myself in particular, I mean we had a conversation the other day with our chemist John, cause like I said, we’re developing some
other products right now. And I don’t remember what
the ingredient was, but I, I, I was talking about this ingredient and
off the top of my head I said, well, correct me if I’m wrong and the reason
that we want to increase the percentage of that ingredient would be to do X, Y, Z. And he goes, that’s exactly right. And he [inaudible] and it’s just
because I think to do it, you, you as a brand leader have to
understand what you’re putting in there. I understand every one of the
ingredients that we have in here. I know what they do. I know
where they’re sourced from. I know why we put them in there. I even know the safety rating of every
single ingredient in here. And you know, I mean, that was done purposefully, so
it was a little different. And, and, and, and John has even told us that number one, he had to have an open mind and he also
had to have really no ego going into it because we came to him with
a, a list of, you know, maybe 20 or 30 possible ingredients that
we thought should be included in our original chassis powder. And
he, he took that seriously. Now they couldn’t all work
for, you know, different, you know scientific reasons
that are way above my level. But he looked at our list of
ingredients and said, you know what, some of these actually make sense.
You know, it’s never been done before. But I mean we, we went through as a
team, and this is no exaggeration, went to all of the ingredients in the
EWG database which is like the entire database of, of, of personal
care products basically. And research every single one of them and
broke them all down and started winnowing down when I went down. And then
that’s how we got with that list. And that’s how, you know, we gave
him something to work with. You know, and he’s told us that’s highly unusual, but I think it’s also highly
unusual way for us to do it, but B, to have a chemist with thick enough
skin and you know, no, to think that, Hey, maybe my customers actually
know what they want. You know, maybe they have a point there, right. And maybe we can work together to make
something truly world-class. And so, yeah, I think it’s that synergy that,
that really got us to where we are. It’s always amazing when I talk to
retailers is, is this spectrum right, of people that at one end just kind
of resell someone else’s products. They know very little. They’re just kind of like a pure marketing
machine all the way to someone that does this, like our teas and
all handcrafted something. And this is like, and there’s
a whole gray or in between. It definitely sounds like you guys
are more towards very deep inside the product. Very specific. Absolutely. Absolutely. Absolutely.
I think, you know you know, I, I think, cause here’s the other
thing, from a marketing standpoint, it’s easier to build a
premium brand. I think. I’ve built plenty of commodity brands
as well. You know, from the agency side. And I think there’s, there’s different
ways that you do that. But I think, you know, for me, you know, when
you consider that, you know, we’re, we’re the most expensive in our space
and the market leader at the same time. I mean, that’s when you know, you’re
achieving something, you know, that’s when you know, you’ve reached
it. And, and I have a client in mind. I have a, a large client
of mine on the agency side, they’re in the automotive industry
in, in trucks. And you know, they’re basically the most expensive truck
out there and they’re also number one market share at the same time, you
know, which is again, I think that’s, that’s when you know, you’re
doing something right,
cause you’re selling value, right? They’re selling value.
We’re selling value at the
end of the day. I mean, it’s still, you know, their truck might only be a little
bit more than the next truck, but it’s going to get better fuel
economy. It’s going to last longer. It’s going to have a better warranty, it’s going to have better resale
value and on and on and on and on. And that’s how they’re able to
make it all work. And I think, you know I’ve always
admired them and I think in, in much the same way, you know I’ve tried to model a lot of
what we’re doing at chassis and off of them. Hmm. So when you say, so you’ve
worked with other you know, put yourself as a premium brand and
what was the term you used for other commodity brands? Brands, right. Yeah. I mean, and so What would you say, what is the,
what’s the difference marketing? Like what are some of the things, because it’s almost like a
completely different process. Whole different mindset. Marketing
and premium versus commodity brand. Yeah. And there’s gray
areas. I think first of all, it’s always you’re walking on thin ice
when you try to explain to a client that they have a commodity brand. Right. Cause
I mean, they don’t want to hear that, you know, so let’s say we have a client that’s an
insurance and in their space and they have a very good insurance product.
It’s a great insurance product. Okay. And they believe it’s the best insurance
product in the space and it minute and it very, it very well may be, I mean,
they’re, they’re the market leader in the, in the state of Florida for what
they do. But at the same time, I bet you if I talk to
their direct competitor, they would think they have the insurance
product for the state of Florida. Right? So you know, at the end of the day to a consumer
when they’re looking at insurance as a, as an example, you know, does it have the coverage I need and
is it priced right? You know, the, that’s really what they care about. And, and do I have confidence in
that product? So you know, I think that with commodity products,
it’s a lot about selling familiarity, right? Familiarity is a really
big thing with commodity products. You want somebody to feel like, I
know this brand already. You know, this isn’t like some fly by
night company because you know, they check your checking
off boxes. You know, where when you’re talking about chassis,
you’re talking about a premium product. You know, you’re selling an
experience a little bit more. You’re telling a brand story a little
bit more. You know, there’s just, it’s a little bit of a deeper
connection. You know, that’s why, you know, a name like chassis
that, you know, once you get it, once you understand, that’s like the
undercarriage of a car. You know, most guys are like, Oh my God, that’s,
that’s pretty genius. You know, the name for, you know, for the, for
that brand. But at the same time, a lot of guys don’t even know
what a chassis is. You know, a lot of guys aren’t car guys
anymore. They’d never heard of it. They don’t even know how to pronounce it. They think it’s a French word or something
like that. And, and you know that. But that’s okay too. That’s worked well
for us. I think the fact that, you know, maybe we are from France, I
don’t know. You know, and, and I think there’s that little
mystery behind it. And, you know, you look at you know, package
design on a premium product. You know, I talk about this
all the time that you know, if you look at our bottle, sorry
to hold it up again, but you know, you notice there’s a lot of white
space here, right? You know, there’s, there’s only a couple of
colors on it too, right? We don’t have the whole
rainbow, we don’t have metallic, we don’t have shadows gradients.
It’s, it’s clean. It looks high in, I mean it’s, it’s probably one of the biggest
anomalies in design that the simpler the design, the higher end it appears. Which is highly counter-intuitive, right? I mean you would think that the more
involved designs might be the better products, but in fact that’s
really not how it works. So it’s, Yeah, it’s one of those strange
things with design. It’s literally, it’s like higher end brands, like a kind
of easy example, like a stereo, right? You go into this like cheap Sarah store. The cheap ones have like
flashy knobs and everything, but then you go into to
start the higher end ones. They literally use
these basic black boxes. Yeah. Like a Dennis Dennin or
whatever the progression. Yeah. [Inaudible] then on whatever, it’s
the most boring design in the world. But the sound is just like
ridiculous over the top thing. And then you go into these
like basic, you know, Panasonic ones in Walmart and they have
like flashing lights and like kind of It, it, it, and, and, and
think about this way. Like, so there’s the other end of the spectrum
and this is not what we wanted to do. But look at, look at Bose for example. And I hope I don’t get any bad
emails from Bose, but I was at a, a, a charity event the other day where the
giveaway for the event was this Bose all in one speaker thing. I mean it was
like a $250 giveaway, you know, I think, I forget what it’s called, but
it looks beautiful, you know, has the Bose brand name on
it. It sounds good, you know, I mean it’s not bad, but it, but it definitely doesn’t sound as good
as a true high end. Audio product would. Now there are those that would say what
I think that what I’m saying is crazy. Like no way. Bose is the greatest sound of anything
that ever existed in the history of audio. But you know, they’ve created a brand that makes you
believe that they’ve created a very clean design. They don’t have a
million different products, you know they, you know, they,
they, they do what they do. Well, you’re never going
to have a bad experience. You’re never going to plug a Bose speaker
and it sounds like garbage. You know, it may not be done in quality or
something like that, but, you know, I mean I think that that’s,
that’s their, that’s their space. They’ve found a niche. And I
mean obviously there it’s, it’s, it’s working for them. Yeah. Cause once you get [inaudible]
because once you get over a certain tear, right, then you become, until like this
audio file, like specialty, you know, the guy who wants to spend $20,000 on a
stereo and basically the average person audio file a niche, which is a
whole different thing than a pose. Yeah, exactly. I was in have you
ever been apt in Chicago before? That’s that huge electronic
Superstore in suburban Chicago. They, it was in there a few months
ago and they had a, a, a pair of speakers. I believe that the price was
$150,000 for this pair of speakers. I mean, it sounded amazing, but you
know, I hate someone’s buying it, I guess. Yeah. And there’s a group for that, but Bose hits that perfect kind of thing
where it’s the average person who wants to have a really nice stereo but doesn’t
really want to go to those, you know? That’s right. Ridiculous speakers.
It’s good enough. It’s, you know, it’s good enough and it, and the
design is great and it’s going to work. And you know, there’s a, there’s
a reliability there, you know, that there’s a brand promise. They,
they may not surpass that brand promise, but they’re going to reach it every time. Yup. Now how do you find, so how do you know where you
are in that kind of spectrum? And then find those customers that want
that level, right. Cause you don’t, if you go, if you’re trying to say with
the best in the world, but only this, like, you know, we’re offering $500
a bottle and it’s like specialist, but that’s not, you don’t
want to be that, you know, That’s what you just have to
leave in what you’re, yeah, you gotta you got to find your niche
and then you gotta stay in your lane. I think that that’s, that’s how,
that’s what I believe. Right? So whatever that niche is, and you can do all the market
research in the world you know, the third party panel studies, the
you know, statistical analysis, however you want to
arrive at your your niche, you find it and then you stay in that
lane and you don’t try to deviate too much from that. Right. You, you trust the
research that got you there. We get, they find It though. How do, how
do you do that initial [Inaudible] well, I mean, you
know, so for example you know, say you were gonna get into a
niche say you were gonna I dunno. I’m trying to think of
some office chairs, right? So you’re gonna get into the office
chair game and you’re going to actually going to start in and let’s assume
you’re not white labeling, you know, to your earlier point because
unfortunately that is a
very common thing you see today is just white labels
everywhere. You know, it’s no one really makes anything.
They’re just slapping a logo on it. So let’s put that aside for a minute
and let’s assume that you’re actually making office chairs, right?
So off the top of my head, cause I’m actually buying office
chairs right now for our new office. I know that right now there are plenty
of cheap office chairs that you can buy an Amazon for 150 bucks. There’s a few middle-grade ones you
can get like an an office Depot. They’re kind of like the Herman Miller
knockoffs. I tend to buy for my, my team there are about
$400. You know, they’re, they’re really good and ergonomic and
then you go from there all the way up to those Herman Miller’s that you know, are
a thousand to 1500 [inaudible] there. And so like right now, if I’m
looking at those office chairs, I would say there’s a couple of gaps. Probably there’s probably a a
gap right around that $200 Mark. And there’s probably a gap right
around that five, $600 Mark. And, and this is again off the
top of my head. I mean this, don’t let anyone take this at you
know, take this at face value. I guess what I’m trying
to say, officer expert, but not an officer expert yet as
I claimed to know very little. But in that example, let’s just assume that we run the analysis
and we plot everything out pricing wise and we, you know, look at, you know, value versus comfort versus
luxury versus options and, and build a little matrix and kind
of plot it all out. And we find, wow, there really is a void for a $200 office
chair. There’s lots of garbage ones. And then you get in that form,
but that $200 price points, great. We think we can make a better office
share for $200 and that’s a sweet spot. You just, you got to commit to that then and make
the best $200 office chair that you can, if that’s, if that’s
what you’re going to do. Okay. So you, so you would start kind
of, you take a step back and say, I want to create an office chair, but at that point it’s still not
decided what level of office Joe. Then you start looking at the landscape,
plot out who’s making office shares, what price point, how do you think they rate verse each
other and then start figuring out where you’re going to wedge yourself into that? Yeah, I think, you know, I would say
that that’s accurate. I would say that, I mean clearly there’s probably something
that led you to office shares in the first place. You probably, I’m guessing you thought that you had
some way to do it better or design or something like that, but
you know, I mean in the, in the case of chassis I already
explained that, you know, our formula dictated our
price point, right? I mean, you know, we, and I say this all the time, we can make this product for
less than half the price. Probably a quarter of the price that
we’re making it for. We wanted to, it wouldn’t work nearly as well.
It wouldn’t perform nearly as well, but we could do that. And
then obviously with, you know, one third to one quarter
of the cost of goods sold, we could drop our price considerably
at the same time if it, again, if we, if we wanted to go that route. But when we decided to make the world’s
best powder and put the best stuff in it, it drove that cost of goods up pretty
high to the point where anybody with any experience at all in,
in CPG would say, well, you’re going to have to have a premium
price if you want to make any money. We couldn’t sell this for
$7 a bottle, you know, just, it was never going to happen. So I
mean, in other words, like in that case, we kind of let the product
dictate it and then, you know, you have a little bit of wiggle room and
where you want your ultimate pricing to be, but we were never going to be
a a drugstore product, you know? Yeah. So you kind of want, you
start it with that, what chemical, what kind of ingredients went into
it that kind of dictated, okay, so now out of this whole huge map of,
you know, you’re off the ship map, you’re like, all right, we have to be at
least this section over here. We can’t, like, if we want these ingredients,
we just can’t be over there. So that kind of started that. Now you
have to figure out, okay, how are you? Is there no one above us? Are we really like the highest end one
or is there some little wedge that we’re jumping into? Oh Yeah. And you know, I mean, then
you get into a whole, you know, price elasticity equation. That’s a
whole nother topic. You know, you know, you can get to know a whole economics
discussion there and you know, how elastic is your pricing and
you know, ours isn’t terribly so, I mean we’ve, it’s surprisingly we can run a sale and
don’t see a huge difference either way, you know. So I think that you
know, again, our, but our, our, our repeat purchase is
so high right now that, you know, once you start using
it, it’s, it’s really, it’s, it’s something you’re going to probably
use for the rest of your life, you know, and, and just really become a part of
your, your grooming routine. So, you know, and honestly for, for
most guys now you know, okay, is it $18 a
bottle? Is it $20 a vile? Is it $25 a bottle, you know,
for the average working guy, if it’s something that’s important to you, you’re probably not going to give a
whole lot of thought to that, you know, for something that’s good, you know? Yeah. And it kinda think
you know, something to pay. So deodorant kind of symbols
they use all the time. At some point you stopped looking at the
price. You just know that’s the exact, like you almost have like a pitcher and
that you just follow the pitcher and you skip over the price. You
just know it’s roughly, it’s roughly what you’re gonna
purchase it once you like, it’s, it’s right at this price. I
don’t really care anymore. I’m just going to keep buying it. And
that’s what you do kind of, I don’t know, just men, but I know. Yeah, it’s, yeah, it is. And, I mean, one of the interesting things
about grooming that, you know, there’s all this research in the
world that says that you know the, in fact during the Oh eight recession
there’s all these studies that show that a premium grooming products and premium
beauty products did not suffer very much during the recession. And the, the theory behind it is
that even if you, you know, can no longer afford your nice car, or
maybe you had to downsize your house, maybe you even lost your house these
little luxuries in your life, you know, like a nice for a guy,
a nice bottle of powder, maybe a nice bottle of nail Polish
for a woman can make you feel good. And, and, and there’s, there’s some value
to that because at the end of the day, I mean, you know, for most guys, you know, 15 to $20 isn’t going to
break the bank either way, but if it makes you feel
better it’s kinda like a, an attainable luxury, right?
But it’s not like, you know, buying a new Mercedes
or something like that. Gotcha. So once you kind of decide
that’s, that’s a lane you want to be in, that should niche and I go on for that.
How do you convey that to the customer? How do you, from a branding point of view,
I actually tell them like other than, so we said it’s a clean design, that
sort of thing, but in the price. So those are kind of the two
basic things, but how else, how are you really conveying them
the story and like who we are? This is who we are as a brand. So I mean, I think that, you know,
number one, we tell the story. So a lot of the narrative that I S I
started the, this interview with, I, you know, it was right on our
website. And then I think you know, it is, it is getting harder in a way
because nobody reads anymore. And I don’t mean that flippantly, but
I mean, if we’re honest with ourselves, you know, we, we like to look at
pretty pictures now. So, you know, the way that we have to tell our narrative
now versus the way that we had to tell our narrative even three years ago
has changed in that we have to do it a lot more with images and
icons and graphics and things
like that. So, you know, you’ve got your, your,
your, your graphics. You may have a little
comparison chart, you know, comparing chassis to a baby powder and
a medicated powder and showing all the features that that we have that they
don’t have. You know, so those are, those are some of the things that,
you know, you have to do. And again, it’s done more with imagery anymore
than, than long form narrative. Hmm. Okay. So even on, so like
Amazon product listing you, you’re leveraging images. So
you’re saying more than before, It’s kind of Oh, way more. Yeah.
I mean, yeah, you have to, I mean, it’s just like we see it
all the time is, I mean, and then just look at your own, you
know, go, go get an Amazon listing or, or just a Shopify site.
And you know, it’s those, you’re going to slide through the image
carousel and those images could have a little words on it, right? Little
call outs or little features, but you know, I mean it’s, people are
making decisions faster than ever. And so much of it is that
first impression, you know,
having good photography, having a great brand name having
a lot of good reviews. I mean, these are the things that
matter. And you know, that’s, that’s where a lot of the first mover
strategy comes from with e-commerce of course is, you know, the
whole, you know, we were first, we were the first ones
there, you know. So you know, reality is you know, our, our reviews continue to
accumulate and, you know, somebody could try to undercut us,
but at the end of the day, you know, we’ve got that, that,
that lead dog position. And now it’s ours to lose. I mean, we could screw it up somehow
and lose it by not, you know, continuing to make a great product by
letting our customers down by, you know, making bad decisions, you know,
so we still have to do our job, but you know, that’s what the
first mover advantage is all about. Hmm. Where do you plan to
take things from hair? Is it, is it building a brand now of different
complimentary products? Is it, you know, version two of this product?
Like what do you go from here now? So we’ve got two more chassis
products in the pipeline, one coming out the end of this year. Another one probably coming
out early part of next year. We are working on another brand.
I can’t quite go too much into it, but where we’re going another brand,
totally, totally separate brand, totally different brand name. I’m
also in the men’s grooming space. I’m also actually, yeah, so also the men’s grooming space and
also sort of taking advantage of a niche that we’ve, we’ve found, you know, solving a problem that a lot of guys
have that there really isn’t a great product in that particular
price point currently. And then we’re also working on one more
brand. This one’s a little further out, probably another year or
so out one more brand. That’s actually going to
be our first unisex brand. We think that as an OS going to be a
unisex brand again serving a niche that currently has one provider one, one manufacturer. But they, we think they’re vulnerable.
And from a branding standpoint, we know we can run circles around
them cause the brand for that, that leader in that space is
very 1980s, let’s just say. So we, we think we can improve upon that
and from a branding standpoint, really capture a younger audience that, that would never consider a brand
with that that look and feel. So you said said interested in, there’s different products in a
launch under the chassis brand, but there’s also different
brands, you know, lunch, right? So there’s two different things.
What’s, what is the thought process? What does the decision making process
on what you’d want to put inside the chassis brand versus what you’d want to
read through the work of creating a new brand? Because that’s
a lot more work though. Great question. So I, and, and this is, this is a tough thing because I think
that we, we debated a lot internally. You know, the chassis brand name
is, is very well known. That said, our tagline is man care for down there.
That’s our tagline. That was the, the line in the sand that we drew. Could we lose that and then
start making deodorant? And so in all sorts of different
than shaving gel, we could and that cross our mind.
But at the end of the day, I think that’s where you lose a
little bit of that PR brand promise, potentially. Because, you know, now
we’ve gone from man care for down there, but now trust us, we’ve got the
best shaving gel. You know, I’ve, I don’t know that I would fall for
that. You know, as a consumer I would, I would have doubts that,
that you’re, you know, you were the best powder and now you’re
saying you’re going to have a great shaving gel. I don’t know.
So I mean, but again, it’s up for debate and believe me that
was a very intense debate internally. I don’t know that
there’s a right or wrong, but the path that we’ve
chosen is to say, look, we’re, we’re solving problems and we can do
that at a brand level as opposed to, you know, creating one brand
that does everything. You know, that the Google way or the general
electric way of doing things. Yeah. Cause you see people
go both routes, right? So like you can work in either
direction because if you absolutely can, and you invested the chassis
brand, it’s an asset now, right? That’s something that it is you’ve built
over time and people believe in that and his followers that if
you come up with a, you know, whatever the other brand
name is, they’re not, and you sell it to the same folks, they might not even realize you’re related
in that kind of trust you have with chassis. You need to rebuild
that with them on a brand. Absolutely. I mean, there’s no doubt
about it. It’s a risk. It’s a risk. But I think then I would
also say, you know, so imagine again back to that scenario
where all of a sudden this tagline goes away and instead of man care for down
there, maybe it just says, man care, I don’t know. And now all of a sudden you’re shopping
chassis and you realize, wait a second, these guys do shaving cream.
They do. So they do blah, blah, blah. I mean, you know, are, are they the best anymore
or are they just, you know, another mass brand? It
does everything. Okay. and I, you know, look, again, I don’t, I’m not saying there’s a right
or wrong but I think, you know, we’ve made the decision that
that’s the best approach for us. Okay. So yeah, cause there, so what would you think with
the folks that when they, they come out of the gate with the general
brand and they just think, you know, we’ll use this like instead of being
very niche down, they just say, you know what, let’s just come up instead of
skincare for down there sort of thing. You start come up with just men’s
skin care and that’s how you start. That’s the Genesis, right. What do you
think about that approach? And then Wait a second. I mean, if we could,
if we could rewind the clock maybe, but again, I, I don’t know. I mean,
look, I mean there are, I mean, let me say this [inaudible] there
are a few men’s grooming brands. I won’t name names that
also make powder. Okay. It’s not as good as our powder, but they make powder and it’s marketed
in a similar fashion. But those, a couple of those brands are, you know,
have a hundred other skews, you know, you name it, they’re it. Everything from lip balm to shaving cream
to hair gel and everything in between there. Their sales of that powder
don’t even come close to this. Right? So, you know, I mean that that could
be some evidence right there that show, and these are huge brands that anyone
would, would, would love to be a part of, right? I’m not knocking these brands. And if you were to add up those
hundred skews that they have, it’s a map. These are massive companies
you’re talking about here, right? So I’m not throwing any
stones, but at the same time, they’re way behind where we
are in the niche that we’re in. Does that make sense? Yeah. And that’s one of those things
you can, as much larger brands, so you can go out there.
These consumer package, good brands are the juggernauts, right,
of industry where they’re just these, these beats. Right? But the only, it sounds like one way you’ve kind of
found to compete with them is just go very like a laser into a very specific niche. Like you are this exact product for this
exact type of person. Like you can’t, you can’t go head to head with the
juggernaut with this monster. Right. But you can win in a very specific place
and that when you talk and you know, it’s still big enough where there’s a
lot there where it’s not just, you know, it’s still a very large market but not
enough for a large companies to go back deep into. That’s right. And I think you know, you, you combine that with the fact that a
lot of these larger companies that came around before the
eCommerce side of things, they also are way behind when it comes
to eCommerce marketing. I mean it’s, it’s, it’s actually kind
of funny. I mean, you know, the next time you’re on Amazon, take a look at the really big brands
and what their presence looks like on Amazon and then compare that to
maybe some of the more, you know, smaller upstart brands. And you’ll see how far behind the
April a lot of these big brands are. Cause they’ve never had to
do it before. You know, they, they were just worried about
shelf space at a, you know, at Walmart and stuff like that. And
you know, obviously it’s a, you know, we use our shelf space at Walmart
or ranking in Amazon, you know, it’s two totally different things and so
it has leveled the playing field and I think it’s enabled companies like us
who know what we’re doing and who take a real cerebral approach
to it. You know, we can, we can achieve some pretty amazing things. Awesome. That’s a good place to end
up, Ben. That’s super insightful. If folks want to find you, kind of
learn more about you or some links. Sure. Yeah. Well chassis for men, C H a S S I S like the chassis of
a car chassis for men.com is our, our website level six
marketing, the number six. That’s my agency site. And yeah,
I appreciate you having me. Awesome. Thanks. Great chatting with
you. I have a good one. Thanks. You too.

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