February 25, 2020

How to Adapt Your Ecommerce Store to Changing Consumer Behaviour w/ Matt from Klarna

Make Merchants Money, here to help you grow your Ecommerce business. A Podcast By Underwaterpistol. Hello and welcome to episode five of Make Merchants Money. I am your host, Miz Trujillo,
and today we are discussing how to adapt your ecommerce store to changing consumer behavior.
To help us along with this discussion, we have Matt and Karim, joining us on the show.
Karim is Ecommerce Manager here at Underwaterpistol. Thank you very much for joining us, Karim. Thank you for having me. It’s great to have you. And Matt is Account Manager at Klarna, a global tech bank, which
amongst other things, provides ecommerce store owners with some pretty nifty payment options.
Thanks for coming on the show. Matt, how are you? Very good. Thanks very much for having me. It’s great to have you. I guess to jump straight into the conversation, it would be good to
hear a little bit from you Matt about what being a global tech bank involves, the services
that Klarna provides and how these can help ecommerce store owners. Yes, I think it’s a, it’s a huge sort of space, it’s quite an exciting space to be in. Klarna
itself is nearly 14 years old. And our real mission statement is simplifying the
the buying process for the customer, but also the sales process for the merchant. So the
main way that we sort of do this is by actually looking at the user experience, looking at
the user journey, identifying potential sort of problem areas from the payment piece, and
then solving them with new payment methods or quicker purchasing history. So essentially,
simplifying that basket to completion sort of journey for the customer. And making that
a smooth as possible will allow more customers to get through that journey, and therefore,
more sales for the retailer, which is obviously where everyone is chasing at the
moment. Absolutely, that’s what everyone wants. So to tie this into our overall conversation
of adapting ecommerce stores, to changing consumer behavior, it would be good to start
by, by laying the foundation. Maybe, you can help with this, Karim. When we refer to consumer
behavior within the confines of ecommerce, what are we really looking at? What kind of
behavior are we looking for? I mean, we’re really looking at everything when you think about it. Nowadays, when we
think about customer segmentation, for instance, that’s one of the things that businesses use
to be able to identify, who are the customers? What are they doing? Where are they coming
from? etc. The classic way of doing it was traditionally by kind of segmenting them by
age, gender, profession, etc. But nowadays, we can see a shift in these techniques. And
using this kind of behavioral tracking, by looking at where people click what people
do, where they come from, to actually segment them in terms of behavior. So you might have,
instead of talking to customers, and trying to talk to the 30 year old single Mum, you
would talk to your Instagram addict, or you would talk to your food lover, and these could
be anywhere from 18 years old to 65 years old, and they could do anything as a job.
And they would still be interested in the same kind of product. So when you think about
customer behavior, and how it changes now it is really interesting. And it’s really
fascinating about the new ways that we find of really kind of creating this deeper connection
between businesses and customers. So that if the experience feels more personal
everyone’s happier at the end of the day, Absolutely, that’s what we’re looking for a personal experience, and for both sides
to come out of it happy. Anything you’d add on this front, Matt? No, I think that’s pretty much sort of hit the nail on the head. I think segmentation
based on sort of demographics, whilst it’s still important, I think actually knowing
your consumer, who your average consumer is, what their habits are in social, what their
habits are in physical retail, and understanding their needs, and requirements is almost
more important now than it ever has been, because you do have a very small window to
be able to convert that customer. And if you can give them a better experience than they
used to, then they become a brand advocate for you. And like you said, both merchant and
customer leave happy. Perfect. So coming back to how Klarna fits into this conversation. I guess the question
would be why offer different payment options, pay later options, split payment methods?
How are consumers behaving that warrants this, and what benefits will it have for store owners
to be providing the services? Yeah, I mean, it’s a great question, it’s probably the question that gets asked the
most in sort of meetings I’m privy to, I think the biggest thing from a retailer point
of view is giving your customer flexibility or choice. Providing them with an experience
that perhaps they’re not necessarily used to. Providing that or going the extra mile
as it were, giving that customer the ability to try on the product at home, to push
the actual payment day out and not relying solely on having card details to hand for
example, but also just giving that customer something that’s different to what they used
to different or your competitors are potentially offering and delighting that customer by
giving them a better experience. So that’s kind of the main avenue that we we look at
with our two main products. And I think if you look at online shopping as a whole
it’s obviously hugely expanding, really exciting market to be a part of, but the one, the big
drawback for online shopping is you don’t know what it’s going to look like, or what
it’s going to feel like when it arrives. And I’ve been unfortunately victim to quite a
few purchases online where it’s arrived and it hasn’t looked like the picture, or it arrives
two weeks, three weeks late. So there’s always that anxiety from a consumer point of view
of will it arrive? What will it fit like? So our basically pay later
product is our flagship product, essentially, what it actually does is allow a customer to
receive the goods, and then they have either 14 or 30 days to complete the payment to,
to Klarna, we pay the merchant directly on dispatch so as far as the merchant is concerned,
it’s exactly the same as a card payment, Klarna actually absorbs the risk from a non payment
standpoint. So that’s kind of how businesses view the product. From a consumer standpoint,
you’re eliminating that reliance on me having my card details to hand, on me knowing the
retailer, knowing what fit I am, knowing what size I am. And also, you’re eliminating a
lot of the annoyance of actually inputting details at the point of purchase. And I think
this is really, really important for mobile users. So I know we’re going to go on to probably
discuss it more with Karim. But the mobile consumer is inherently more at risk of being
distracted. So I know if I’m on my mobile and I’m browsing on a retailer, I’ll get WhatsApp
or I’ll get an Instagram message. And then I’ll be diverted away from from that channel.
So ideally, you need to convert these customers as quickly and as smoothly as possible, especially
on that mobile device. And that’s kind of where pay later comes in from a
retailer and a consumer standpoint, Perfect. I mean, in terms of the payment options, that’s exactly what we’re looking for. The
behavior is that people are anxious about about receiving things, because they’re doing
everything online. And you’ve got a solution for that. But you’ve also touched on the next
point that I was going to talk about anyway, which is some of the other recent trends that
we can see. And mobiles are one of them. A stat from this year, I found very interesting
was that 85% of online shoppers began the journey shopping on one device, say, their
mobiles, but ended it on a different device, like their desktops, or vice versa. And as
you were mentioning, getting distracted, is one of the main reasons this could happen
on mobile devices. But maybe, Karim, how should data like this be affecting the way we look
at our ecommerce stores, and the decisions we make? It completely changes the game, like you said, the distractions on the mobile are infinite,
when you think about it, like all the apps that you have, that are all potentially going
to send you a notification and take you out of whatever you are currently doing. And especially
if you’re shopping, this is something that needs to be considered whether you like it
or not, because businesses need to react to it if they want to be successful. And when
you think about these distractions, like going back to Matt’s point, Klarna is one of those
tools that we can use to actually increase trust and reduce the decision making process.
Because when you think about it, one of the biggest and longest time that you spend while
making a buying decision is when you’re actually going through the payment process, when you
actually put in your credit card details when you’re thinking about this final moment, is
it actually worth it? And am I actually going to buy this thing? This tool like Klarna,
that businesses can use are actually going to reduce this barrier and makes the customers
kind of have an easier add to cart and easier checkout process so that they can actually
decide later. And they don’t even have to change their device because they’ve already
placed the order. It’s a no brainer. And like you said, like, if they’re not happy about
it, if they don’t receive the right kind of product, or it doesn’t correspond to any of
their expectations, that’s when they know they’re not going to be charged. And when
you think about the two main aspects about having a successful business you need for
customers to like you and trust you and with tools like Klarna, you really plan the trust part. Amazing. Yeah, definitely. Matt. I know that Klarna conducted a survey in Sweden, Norway
and Finland this year, I was looking at it and found it really interesting about how
online shoppers think and act. Are there maybe any purchasing habits that really stood out to
you from that survey or, or other data that you’ve collected, which you think is is worth
highlighting for our listeners? Yeah, I think we actually have a what there’s two there’s two main ones that I would tie
into sort of this webinar and it’s the first one is the info age millennial sort of deep
dive that we undertook with a couple of our data research partners. And essentially
what we actually did was basically looked at the millennials as a consumer group, not
simply their, so payment requirements, but also what is there sort of on the site.
So we found that millennials were excitable, but also anxious and impatient when it comes
to completing a purchase. So from a business point of view, you need to make sure that
you’re catering to both excitement, but then also that your processes are geared up to
combat as much as possible, this anxiety or the impatience of these consumers.
And I think this is definitely impacted by the rise of sort of Uber, Deliveroo, this
instant gratification want it now generation I think, quite a few retailers I’ve seen recently
have sort of fallen by the wayside because they haven’t understood what their consumers
are feeling or what they consumers are doing on the site. And I think one of the biggest
things I can say from my standpoint, is, as a retailer, go through that user experience
on a mobile. So make a purchase on your site, on your mobile, make a purchase on your
desktop, and then compare your experience to what your consumers are telling you from
sort of feedback loops or reviews and see if there are ways that you can improve the
overall experience with regards to what your consumers are actually seeing. That will provide
a large benefit towards the end of the year, but it will also give you great insight to who
your consumers actually are, what are they looking for? Are they looking for a discount code pop up?
Is that really needed there and then? Or can I use that, that margin essentially in
a better avenue elsewhere, perhaps improving the delivery methods on offer? So I think
that’s understanding who your consumers are, reading white papers from, from someone like
Klarna or from any one of these other providers. And even if it can provide a sort of small
snippet of information that you can then use and build into your business, then overall,
across 12 months, it’s going to have a much better impact than just simply sort of plodding
along and not evolving Amazing, amazing coming back to one of our favorites topics on the podcast. The infamous
abandoned carts which are the pain in every seller’s back. If we look at the data gathered from
consumer behaviour or millennial purchasing trends, what does it really tell us about
why these shopping carts are being left behind? I mean, it’s, I tend to think there’s probably two main groups in this. There’s
the consumers that you can address. And there’s also the consumers that you can’t address.
So the consumers that you can address this is by looking at why are they abandoned that
basket? Have they abandon it for something that I can change. So where my delivery methods
not up to scratch, do they not know what my returns policy was, but also one of the
really, really key or one of the best things I’ve seen recently in terms of abandoned
basket email is not here is a 5% on his a 10% discount code from abandoning a basket.
But they actually took my on site experience what I’ve been looking at, in this case, it
was a pair of shoes, and they said, okay, maybe these weren’t right for you. But based
on what I actually looked at on the site, they recommended additional products that
were similar to that product that I was looking at. So again, it’s providing engagement without
over reliance on that, that discount code and then that’s where I think that
consumers can really use our merchants can really use the the marketing campaigns and
the payment options on site. So for example, did you know that you can now use Klarna’s
pay later option on the site, drive that customer back to the site, even if they don’t purchase,
but it does come back to knowing your consumers and why they are abandoning, are they abandoning
because they can’t afford the purchase, are they’re abandoning simply because they became
bored and and the process was too long? Or are they annoyed because they don’t understand
the delivery methods that are on option and that’s why they’ve abandoned the basket. So think
it’s very difficult to basically paint everyone with the same brush. But there definitely
are a few ways that you can get the most out of these abandoned basket emails or pop
ups. And I think experimenting with the messaging, the color schemes and things like that can
give you really, really good insight into how you can get the best ROI from a system
like that. Perfect. Yes. I mean, you mentioned personalisation. I know obviously, there’s a big percentage
of abandoned carts which, which occurred because people change their mind. But we had a great
episode on personalisation with Segmentify recently on the podcast. And obviously, if
you can be recommending similar things that they can be picking out, you can hopefully
lower that percentage drastically. Another big percentage from abandoned carts also comes
because people think the shipping cost is too high, or the delivery will take too long.
Maybe Karim, what would you recommend sellers be providing in terms of this, to lower percentage
of abandoned carts even lower? Well, it all comes down to one word, which is value. And like Matt said, You need to
know your customers. And you need to know their expectation. And we live in an era where
people are used to shopping on websites like Amazon where the delivery is usually less
than two or three days, or even one day if you have Prime, and this is something that
gets ingrained into consumer habits to like, show the shipping times is definitely one
of the things that people want to look at, because during that becoming more and more
important, and also like in terms of value as in the product itself? Like, is it something
that really improves the lives of your customers? Or is it something that they really desire
and they’re really want to get their hands on? Are you unique, like when we talk
about abandoned cart, this could be like an infinite amount of reasons why they would
like they could be something really mundane as someone got distracted, and they actually
forget about the cart and you just send them a reminder, and you don’t need any discounts
or anything and it just going to include it and make that purchase. Or it could be because
they actually have five tabs open on their browser and actually look at the same product
in different competitors. And they actually found a cheaper version or a shorter shipping
time, these are all the things that it should be taken into consideration. But once again,
that all comes down to value. What is your product, is it the best one for your customers?
Is it worth buying? Are your shipping terms good enough and fast enough? And also, the
one of the last points but not least, is the guarantees that you offer. Like, especially
for higher ticket products. When you think about it, when there’s more thinking behind
the scenes, there’s more research from the customer side. And they want this guarantee
that their money’s been taken. But at the same time, they can have it back if they actually
are not satisfied with their purchase. So these are all things that go back again to
does the customer like and trust your business? If they do they’re going to buy from you.
And then you have tools like Klarna that can help out this process and make it less painful. Absolutely. Thank you, Karim. Something I wanted to touch on on I guess we have touched
on it in a way about multi device integration. But I wanted to highlight the importance of
simplicity and the right of sites running smoothly all the way through. We live in a
very convenience focused society, we want things at our fingertips. We want them to
work well. And we want them now. What does this mean for ecommerce stores? How should
it be affecting both front end but also the back end of sites? So not only in terms of
the user experience, but of the data we collect? And how we look at pushing customers through
our funnel? Matt, maybe? Yeah, I think you hit on a really interesting point here. I think merchants quite often will
focus on how smooth the site runs as a from a front end point of view. So how quickly
do pages load How quickly can a customer get to the basket page? How can it can see have
we’re looking at consumer consume information on the site, which is obviously really important.
But if you have a great front end and the back end sort of falls over consumers are
going to be aware of this. So a really good example of this is actually did a purchase
just recently for Christmas present. And from a well known high street retailer luxury goods
and I ordered it to be delivered to a store and I was I was on the impression that I will
receive notification updates on when my goods have been picked when it had been packed and
when they’ve been dispatched and ready the collection and that was actually meant to be collected
last week and I still to this day do not have any update on that now from exactly for me from my point of view,
I now have to contact the retailer, I have to take time out my day to contact the retailer to ask where this order is. So this is a classic example of the front end really easy, really
slick, really smooth for me, the consumer but the back end is falling down to such a
point that I probably won’t won’t purchase from them again. Or if I do I will compare
them directly to the competitor before I do . So the end to end journey is really, really
important. And I think consumers are more and more savvy in terms of looking at review
sites, are there lots of people complaining about the time it takes to get a refund process?
How do I actually contact the retailer if I do have an issue? So all of the the back
end processes that perhaps weren’t and looked at under a microscope as the front end become
really, really important when it comes to second, third and fourth purchase from a consumer.
And those those consumers are the ones that you’ll generate the most revenue from, it’s
quite easy to convert a single user once or relatively easy but it’s getting getting that
that user to convert a second, third and fourth time that really outlines that your processes
of working in relation to your team is actually looking for. So that end to end journey. And
this includes the returns and refunds process, making sure that is slick, or smooth as possible
is really, really important in terms of retaining existing customers as well as acquiring new
ones. Absolutely. I wanted to touch on customer retention. And we’ll do that in a second.
First of all, I hope you get your, your order. Okay. Because that’s, that’s very important.
Karim, anything you’d add on this note before before we move on? Yeah, I mean, like we, we always talk about online and being futureproof. But to your
point, like, we still live in the omni channel, omni channel way of doing business, where
loads of friends, you don’t have bricks and mortar stores that they use on top of their
ecommerce brand, these are all things that can be interlinked that can work really, really
well together when when things are done well. The for instance, like an example that
I would give here is some retailers would have, click and collect like what you were
referring to Matt, and people would go and collect their order at a store. But at the same
time, they would look around and they would be exposed to like all these other products
that they have around them physically. And they usually have one or two as an add on
and upsell. And on the other hand, like, especially in the fashion industry or fashion retailers
and with the highest level of return compared to any other industry, this is actually an
opportunity for them to have those returns in store convert into other purchases for
other products. So one thing that looks like a risk and expected loss from a direct point
of view can actually turn into an opportunity into extra revenue at the end. On the other
hand, when things are well and when the omni channel all the channels are integrated as
one. Perfect, thank you, Karim. Matt touched on a point as I mentioned that I wanted to talk
a little bit about and it’s another popular subject matter on the podcast. The cost of
acquisition versus retention, the fact that it can cost anything from five to 25 times
more to acquire a new customer than to retain one and a new stat I found this week and I
found interesting that increasing retention rates by just 5% could help increase profits
by anything from 25 to 95%. So with this in mind, how important is the customer post purchase
experience? What should sellers be doing or offering in order to make this as smooth as
possible? Matt? I think it’s massively important, I think you can throw in vast sums of money on SEO,
PPC, basically customer acquisition. But if I purchase this pair of shoes, for example,
and then the returns process of the refund process is labourious, requires lots of input
for me lots of chasing from the consumer, then that consumer is very, very unlikely
to be to purchase from yourselves. Again, as a retailer, this is a huge opportunity.
Because if you can make that that process which if we look as a whole, the return or
the refund or query process is really, really annoying for a consumer standpoint. If we
can make that process slick, easy, simple, then, even in the worst case scenario, that
I have an issue with an order if I can actually answer my own questions on an FAQ page or
in live chat, for example, then you’re you’re removing one of the biggest barriers to me
repurchasing again, so even if the shoes arrive, and then not the right fit, if I can return
them to you. And my refund is processed very quickly or that kept in the loop essentially,
or in the case of Klarna, if the company is actually paid on pay later, there is none,
none of that refund query or questioning or waiting from consumer standpoint. So again,
this now becomes a really good channel, you can then target because you know that you’ve
given that consumer a better experience and than they’re used to. What we can see from
from our data is customers who have a smooth post purchase experience are much more likely
to leave a review, for example, and go back on and purchase again. So from a retailer
point of view, it’s a huge opportunity to maximize the overall benefits of having a
smooth front end, if you ensure that the back end process is also smooth, and you keep the
customer informed at what stage their refund is, a really good example, I have of
this, I’ve recently bought a snowboard and I received three automated emails, post purchase.
And the first was to let me know that the goods have been picked and packed. Second
one, wants me to know, that it actually been and dispatched and delivered. And the third
one was thank you very much for you, or is there anything else that we can do for you
now, are there any issues that we can help with, and then that email actually contain
a link to an FAQ page where all of my common questions will be answered. So as a consumer,
I know that I can go into the email and I can see all the answers that I might need.
And off the top of my head, I would’nt have to communicate with the customer. And in essence,
that hasn’t really taken much input from the retailer, all they’ve done is taken their
FAQ page and put it into an email and sent it to you, so they’ve done they’ve done a
really good job and making sure that I’m happy end to end, yes, it was a high ticket purchase.
But when I next go to buy accessories for that snowboard, for a skiing jacket, for example,
I’m much more likely not to go back to them. Because I’ve had a better experience than
I was expecting. That’s an example of how a retailer can really understand what their
consumers looking for. But also address a lot of their potential post purchase questions
or queries, upfront. Definitely, the power of leaving a customer happy is so huge, and then retaining them
to make more profit. And the interesting thing you mentioned about reviews as well, is that
depending on how they’re worded, that they can actually leave the customer feeling even
happier too, when a customer is told that their review is going to help better their
company and their experience that they, they get something out of that, and they feel like
they’re involved. And yeah, it’s so important for, for the seller to get this information
and to have those reviews on the web page. And Karim, maybe anything you’d add on on
this note? I mean, Matt pretty much covered, covered it all, like when you think about it, people
forget about the customer and company relationship. And you think about just two people having
a relationship. And it’s all about how you feel about the other person equally, would
you actually invite them to your party again, oh, which is literally just that like the
you usually won’t actually remember all the interactions and all the emails, etc, that
you’ve received from a company, but you always remember how you feel about them. And all
these tools and techniques are all about bringing the best customer experience and actually
making your customers happy. And even like Matt says, exceeding their expectations when
you can. And this is the best thing you can do. So that not only are they more likely
to recommend you, even though happy customers as less likely to recommend you then unhappy
customers are likely to say to put you down, so that’s like another side of the coin to
take into consideration. But yeah, like it, it kind of plays into this also word of mouth,
like whether with their direct relatives, or through reviews, like you said Perfect. I think just on that topic, it’s actually quite interesting. We obviously monitor social
social channels for us when we launch potential new brands. And to actually see ordinary customers
tweeting or posting on social channels about the new launch. And are genuinely excited
that they’re tagging their their friends and their family or colleagues in posts on social
media about the different payment type. In this case, it’s actually quite interesting
from our standpoint. So we can actually see those customers that we have provided a better
experience to retailers have provided a better experience to will then become advocates for
a brand or a payment type in this case on social media. And therefore they become your
biggest their biggest marketing acquisition channel, essentially, you’re not you’re paying
them affiliate fee on this or not, and giving a discount code essentially these customers
are tweeting off their own back in the case of they had a better experience before, and
they’re recommending that experience. And that’s a lot of potential customers. So that’s
the sort of Holy Grail that everyone wants to chase. And essentially, when you actually
break down all we’ve done all the return of stuff is given that customer better. Yeah, absolutely, yeah, that’s exactly where we want to be. If people are tweeting and,
and telling other people about your company, because they want to, and they’ve got nothing
to gain themselves, then it means you’re, you’re really providing them with a great
experience you’re doing, you’re doing things right. I wanted to get your opinion on an
article that I was reading on Marketing Week, which I thought tied in nicely with the subject
we’ve been discussing. And it has to do with how direct to consumer brands are reshaping
marketing. Now, we see dealing directly with your consumer means you understand them well,
and can adapt very quickly to their needs. If you were to give advice to budding entrepreneurs
who are thinking about starting a brand new venture? Would that be an approach you would
recommend in order to more easily keep on top of changing consumer behaviors? Or would
you encourage them to look at drop shipping as a starting point? Matt? Maybe? Yeah, it’s really it’s a really interesting question. I think it totally depends on on
the product or the sort of angle that you have as a business. I think there’s definitely
pros and cons for both sides. But I think going direct to consumer as a as a starting
point allows you to learn at a much quicker rate than going by a third party. Yes, it
does have risks. I’m sure, Karim can you can elaborate on that. But from my, from my point
of view, if you go direct to consumer, you get the feedback loop straight away, it’s
not buyer, a third party so you’re able to learn, adapt and change with your consumers
as well, rather than being reactionary. You can actually be so proactive in that aspect.
So I think does give you a big edge, but it is about again, it’s a case of knowing your
consumer and also your product. Karim, anything you’d add? Pretty much like my my line of thought is really, really similar. And also in the sense of what
you’re thinking about for your business, are you actually looking for more long term success?
Or do you just want to make some quick cash and just get out of it, drop shipping is a
really attractive idea in terms of outsourcing, getting like your hands off most of the logistics,
and most of the production and distribution etc. but to Matt’s point like you’re, you’re
kind of retreating yourself from the whole core of your business. And this is the part
that is going to help you get the feedback from your customers and also know your product
more know your systems more and have more control over it. And these are things that
also kind of build trust with your customers as in if they find out that you’re drop shipping
and most of the time they will because you should put a disclaimer on your website about it.
It kind of reduces the trust levels because they basically you’re basically saying, we’re
selling you this, but we’re actually not making it and we’re not shipping it and we’re just
intermediaries. So yeah, like in my personal opinion, I was trying to push people to avoid
drop shipping unless it’s the only solution that they have available. But it’s usually
the easiest one to begin with. But once when you can like switch to controlling the core
of your business soon as you can Perfect. Well. Hopefully that leaves our listeners with something to think about. Before we start
wrapping things up when it comes to adapting ecommerce stores to changing consumer behavior,
is there anything you think we need to touch on to leave our listeners with Matt? Yeah, I think one of the biggest, one of the tips I would give to retailers is go and look
at what your competitors are doing. But also go and look at what a market leader in another
sector a completely different sector. So if you’re in fashion, go have a look at one of
the leading electrical retailers, for example, and look at their experience from landing
page to actual point of purchase or learn from what they’re doing what they’re doing
well, and also potentially what they’re not doing so well, because consumer needs
will vary. But if you can get ahead of the curve by seeing what someone in electricals
is doing really well feed that into your your business then you can benefit from from that
change much quicker than if you were being reactionary to one of your competitors, somebody’s
offering it. So I think that would be my piece of advice. And then also just look at look
at the changing landscape, there are loads of different white papers out there on the
changing ecommerce landscape. So just try and keep up to date as much as possible with
new developments or new releases in that in that aspect. I think about leave you in pretty
good stead moving forward. Perfect, and Karim, if you had to reiterate something we’ve talked about on the show today. Something
to leave our listeners with, what would it be from you? If it was just one thing. Try to put yourself in the shoes of the consumers? And what would
you like to see in an experience? Perfect. Well, you can mention more if you’ve got more I’m happy to I’m happy to have more
I’m not going to stop you at one. I mean it’s all about I know we’re specializing in online business. But we always have to
remember that there are real people behind those screens that we sell to and we need
to take that into consideration. They have feelings they have their lives to going on.
And these are all things that you need to think of whenever you build this customer
experience that you integrated as well as you can within their own lives. And I guess
personalisation plays a big role in this now, but also yeah, like try to bring as much value
as we can try to use the tools that you need. And always think about leaving your customers
happy. Perfect. Thank you so much, Karim, thank you to both of you for being on the show. It’s
been absolutely great talking to you. Yeah, it’s really great. Thank you very much. Sure. Excellent. So a huge thank you to all our listeners to and you can find links to both Klarna and
Underwaterpistol in the description below, as well as to any reports we’ve mentioned.
Thanks for listening. And thanks again, Matt and Karim.

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