April 5, 2020
Ep. 27 – Using Humor To Add Punch To Your Copy – With Lianna Patch

Ep. 27 – Using Humor To Add Punch To Your Copy – With Lianna Patch


Welcome to Honest eCommerce where we are dedicated
to cutting through the BS and finding actionable advice for online store owners. I’m your host, Chase Clymer And I’m your host, Annette Grant. And we believe running an online business
does not have to be complicated or a guessing game. If you’re struggling to scale your sales,
Electric Eye is here to help. To apply to work with us. visit electriceye.io/connect
to learn more. And let’s get on with the show. On today’s episode of Honest eCommerce, we
welcome Lianna Patch from Punchline Copy. She’s a conversion copywriter and comedian
whose greatest dream is to make your customers pause, smile and click. Alrighty, welcome back. Here is yet another
episode of Honest eCommerce. I was actually looking at our stats earlier today and we’re
catching up on Kurt Elster. He just got a million downloads and we’ve got like 3000.
So, we’re doing good. Yeah. Watch yourself, Kurt. We’re coming for
you. (laughs) Yeah, we’re coming for you, Kurt. (laughs)
So with that being said, I’m welcomed by Annette across the table from me. What’s up, everybody? And across America from us, –I guess that’s
technically across America– Today, we welcome to the show, Lianna from Punchline Copy. Lianna
is a professional conversion copywriter and a comedian, so we’ll see what we can get out
of her today. Welcome to the show. How’re you doing? I’m good. Thanks for having me. Thanks for
the no-pressure intro to be funny. (laughs). Yeah, no. Now, you have to give us a knock-knock
joke and it has to be related to Shopify or we’re just going to cancel this thing. Oh, yeah. We should have had one teed up. Okay. I’ll come up with one by the end. Okay, well, we’ll see if I remember that. I will not. (laughs) No, no, no. It’s perfectly fine. It’s cool.
So, copywriting. We’ve got a few copywriters on the show and I can’t explain how important
copywriting is, to our listeners. There is just… You can’t describe your products well
enough on your website. You can’t describe your services well enough.
Whatever you’re doing, just writing a copy that appeals to the senses, appeals to your
customer avatars is so important so anytime that a copywriter wants to jump on here, we’re
always super excited about it. So let’s get into it. Let’s talk about eCommerce
copywriting. Yeah. What brought you to be Punchline Copy today?
What’s your tall tale in five minutes? Well, I have this deep-seated need for validation.
So, I was doing stand up, as you do, when you feel empty inside. And that was a few
years ago. And I was… I’ve been copywriting for probably 7 years at that point and I was
just like, “I wish I could combine these 2 things that I enjoy: Stand up, and also improv,
and things that make me money.” And then basically, a couple of people were
like, “Well, why couldn’t you?” And I was like, “Oh my god, I have permission now.” So that’s when I rebranded and I started focusing
on humor copy and I specifically work with eCommerce and software clients because A,
they’re the coolest people and B, they’re the ones who are the most focused on ROI of
copy. So, I always want to make sure that people
are spending money where it makes sense and not just throwing thousands of dollars away
in copy that doesn’t convert, so being able to track those conversions works out well
for all of us. Okay, I got to know. How do you track your
ROI from your copy? I’m curious about that. What do I do? Do I do in Google Analytics? Well, if you are running a store and you’re
running a test or if you have a testing program where you’re like, “Okay, I’m fixing all my
technical issues, I’m doing qualitative research so I know what messages I need to say, and
I’m swiping those messages –and that’s part of what conversion copywriting is. That messaging research–” Then you’re probably
like, “Alright, I’ve identified that the copy on this page is an opportunity or it’s not
performing as well as it could. Let’s try some new copy and see how the conversion rates
change.” Do you test your copy? Like one with comedy
and then without to see which converts better? Or is all of its comedy now? I have in the past. It’s hard to find clients
with that much traffic who are like, “Let’s split test between the control and the original.
The straight version and the funny version.” Okay. I have tested in the past though. And in the
2 or 3 cases that we did that, the funny version won. Love it. I love that. Absolutely. Essentially, its traditional split
testing with the copy So, how deep are you getting with this? Are you just testing subject
lines on like a… Not subject line, I’m sorry. But a product title, or are you testing the
product copy, the call-to-actions. Are you doing them all at once or are you doing them
one at a time? What’s that process look like? Usually, if I’m working on a product page,
I’ll evaluate the whole thing. So things will usually start with a heuristic audit, and
I’ll do a screen share video and I’ll say, “As a visitor to the site, knowing nothing
about the analytics, it’s very hard for me to see this button.” Or “This link is broken.”
Or “I’d like to be able to zoom in on the product images and I can’t.” All of these are potential opportunities to
improve conversions. And then I’ll say, “Also this copy, it doesn’t tell me much about the
materials. I might want to know, where were these diamonds mined? Or who made this shirt?
Or what does the material feel like on my skin? Or whatever it is.” So I come at it from this whole hog perspective
and then when I deliver the final copy, I’ll give those heuristic and UX feedback points
along with the new copy. And often when I rewrite copy, it ends up being longer than
the original. And I think there’s some resistance to that,
because like “All people just want to get in there and buy.” But there’s evidence to
show that if you give the information people need, they will read it. Yeah, I think that the long-form sales letter
is tried and true. It still works. I mean, half of the great marketing books were written
as long-form sales letters at the beginning, Yeah. And sometimes, you just have to get
out of people’s way and that’s where short copy comes in handy. If you have a low dollar
item and it’s like an impulse purchase, –like 15 bucks or below or something like that–
maybe you don’t need a long, educational copy. But if you have a more complicated item or
something that’s $2000, you probably going to need to give a little bit more context
and assuage some more objections. Absolutely. Without a doubt. I think that
with the larger purchase prices, –more luxury items. Items that you probably only got to
buy one of and never replace– those are going to be a longer buying cycle so you’re going
to need to do as much education as you can. And so if your copy is lacking, and then –to
follow up with that– your retargeting is trash, you are just leaving money on the table. (laughs) Yeah. And money should be, I don’t
know, in your fancy pockets or, I don’t know… (laughs) …gambling table or heirloom purse. These
are all objects that don’t exist. But I’m picking them up. Awesome. So beyond just on-page copywriting,
I see here that you’re also helping people out with their emails. And, I’m assuming that
you’re also helping them with split testing those subject lines within these automations
as well. So give me a little more context into how you’re helping with these emails. Yeah. So I think that I’m taking more of a
software onboarding approach when it comes to eCommerce emails. I think there’s a much
bigger opportunity than most stores realize, to usher people into the fold, introduce them
to the brand, and generate real good feelings and start building a relationship before you
just start hammering them with sales offers. So, for instance, I wrote a welcome series
for a coffee retailer. They sell whole bean coffee out of London and if you sign up for
your 10% off coupon, you get this five email series that’s like, “How should I pick a roast?
What’s the difference between all these kinds of themes? How do I avoid destroying my expensive
coffee while I’m brewing it?” And from that series, let me look up that
stat because we ended up seeing an uptick in both first-time purchases and repeat customers
after we implemented that series. (Cat meows in the background) My cat is like, “It’s true. It really happened.” (laughs) The cat’s validating the statistics,
the analytics here? He’s in here. Yeah. (laughs) I always ask my pets if I did a good split
test. (laughs) (laughs) So like, “Split test this!” Chase has no pets. So… I’m referring to my roommate, Aushie. (laughs) Oh. Okay. (laughs) Oh, wait. (laughs) I hope he doesn’t listen
to this. (laughs) Uh, you know what, here’s the thing. He is
going to rework our intro music… Oh! …so maybe he’ll hear this one. (laughs) Yeah. (laughs) Awesome. So, the number in your welcome series,
is that an arbitrary number? Would you say there’s a minimum people need to have? A maximum? I’m assuming with a welcome series and with
everything else within the business –especially when it comes to copywriting and marketing
general– it should all be tested. But do you have any insights for people that don’t
have a welcome series and what they should really consider? Yeah. I mean, it should be mapped to what
they need to know to feel comfortable buying from you. So maybe, that’s just a single email
and you can get everything that they might need to know in that email. Or maybe you want to spread it out and take
a little slower and say, “Here’s more about our company. Here’s more about the materials
we use. Here’s some social proof from other buyers and reviewers.” When in doubt, I think
you can lengthen that series instead of pushing right upfront. But a rule of thumb that I like to use is
a sales email every 3 emails or so. So try to give value 3 emails in a row, and then
you can go for the sale. That’s great advice. So you said every three,
is that correct? Yeah. Okay. Yeah. And you’ll see people, sell more aggressively
and less aggressively and it’s whatever you’ve conditioned people to expect. Sure. And so beyond the welcome series automations,
what are your suggestions when it comes to campaigns? Because I feel like that’s a big
pain point with some of our clients. We’re big proponents over here of automated email
marketing and we see that… We’ll set these campaigns up for our clients
and then we’ll see that the automation campaigns we have set up. But then whatever cadence
they want to work on, be it weekly, bi-weekly, monthly, those seem to not have much strategy
behind it. So what would you say are the best practices
there or just things to consider on making sure that your campaigns have as much thought
put into them as the welcome series probably has? Yeah. I like a quarterly approach like a loose
theme, per quarter. What are we going to talk about this quarter and then however often
we’re sending –whether it’s monthly or weekly– how does that tie-in? So you can give people
a sense of what to expect and what to look forward to from you. Almost (like) telling a story. Yeah. I don’t think it has to be much more
complicated than that. If you’re running super complex promotions, then maybe you want to
get a little more granular with your campaign planning. But I think, evaluating the effectiveness
of any campaign before you send it, you just have to be ruthless. Like, “How is this going
to matter to the reader? Who is going to care about this?” And if you can’t clearly answer
that question, you probably don’t need to send a campaign. Yeah. That’s my question. Is there ever a
time –even if you’re trying to stay on a cadence– you just say, “You know what, it’s
actually going to be… It’s not going to be for us to send out this email blast.” I feel like that sometimes we’re just… (Even
me) myself I’m just like, “Oh, we need to send out an email blast and just make something
up.” And it just doesn’t make sense. Is there ever a time it could be more harmful than
helpful? Yeah. And I don’t think you’ll get a ton of
people writing back and being like, “Objectively, you really didn’t need to send this.” Right. “I’m going to unsubscribe now.” They’ll probably
just unsubscribe and you won’t get that feedback or know why. But yeah, no one’s ever going
to get mad at you for not emailing as often. Yeah. I just think I’m tired of receiving
emails. So I think that’s where it gets… I’m worn down from receiving them. So then
I think too much about sending them. Yeah. That’s I think… With humor, we get
away with a little bit more because if people are used to receiving funny things from you,
they’re much more likely to cut you some slack even when you’re not at your best. Whether
that’s sending on a cadence or sending something particularly funny. I like that. Yeah. When in doubt, if you’re sending an
email, make sure you’re sending value. And that’s why I’m so particular about our content
strategy at Electric Eye. We’re producing stuff weekly… Yeah. …because I don’t want to have to think on
my feet and write an email. I can just talk about what we made that week. Yeah. Yeah, and that’s what people care about.
And I think sometimes when you’re in that position of like, “Oh, God, I don’t know what
to write about. Should I write something?” That pressure can sometimes back you into
a really fun corner and you end up writing something that does well. It’s like when you send a one-off tweet without
thinking about it and then suddenly your most popular tweet for no particular reason, except
that it was casual and you put too much thought into it. Awesome. So, getting back to that cadence.
Have you got any clients that are sending daily emails and seeing super results and
then backing it up from there? Clients that are always sending an email maybe once a quarter?
What should I do as a new store owner? This all just sounds overwhelming. Yeah. I say, get your automation sequences
set up first because those are the ones that are going to keep working for you. And then
figure out how much time you actually have. If you’re writing it or if you’re marketing
directors writing it, how much time you have to put together something meaningful? And don’t push it. Don’t do more than that.
And I should say that I mostly work in the automation campaign space. I’m not doing a
lot of one-off emails. I think I have one client that sends… It used to be a weekly
newsletter and now it’s a monthly newsletter. And that’s something that their people have
come to expect from them. And it’s a monthly roundup of stormwater compliance news. (laughs) Okay. (It’s) the client that I always talk about.
The last people you would expect to have a funny email newsletter, but they do because
they know that their space is so boring. They’re like, “We have to make this interesting and
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the Welcome. What are your other non-negotiable(s) that you would set up for a client? Abandoned cart, obviously. Mm-hmm. And usually, I try to go for 3 of those. So,
usually one within the hour that the cart has been abandoned. Oh, really? One in about six hours. Yeah. And, one within
24 (hours) You can stretch it out to maybe the first one’s within 6 hours, the second
one’s within 24 (hours), and the third one’s within 48 (hours). Yeah. We do… If people lose that, buyers intend to probably
not coming back. Yeah, we do one in 23 (hours), at least. Okay. Yeah. I feel like you could probably infuse a lot
of humor on the abandoned carts. Do you have any examples you could give us? (laughs) So much. I think some of its getting
played out now. There was… It’s like that Derek Siver’s CD Baby email for the order
confirmation where it’s like, “The whole office exploded in celebration.” And now that’s more
common than you would expect. I think a similar thing has happened with
the abandoned cart emails where it’s like, “Oh, the thing in your cart is sad that you
left it behind.” (laughs) But maybe that’s just me being super entrenched
in email because I still like to write those kinds of things. And I did a spin on that
recently for a client who sells sprinkler parts and other landscaping supplies. And it was like… What was it? I’m sitting
in front of my laptop, so I’m gonna look it up. I can’t remember what I named the guy,
but it was like, “Oh this guy, Stuart, in our office was super excited because you had
this great cart…” (laughs) (laughs) “…and then you just left. Now he’s crying
under his desk. Please. We want to go home. Help us get Stuart out.” Or whatever it is. That’s good. Awesome. That’s not what sprinkler customers are expecting. Yeah, no. That’s great. Okay, so we’ve got
Welcome, we’ve got Abandoned Cart, –you recommend three– Mm-hmm. Yes. What’s your other automated email? Post-purchase Win-back. So obviously, if you
have a recurring product like coffee, you’ll know when they’re going to run out. If they
buy a pound of coffee, probably you’re going to send them, “Hey, do you want to buy another
pound?” within two weeks. But even if it’s a one-off product, you can
send something sooner that says, “Hey, we also have these other products that people
like, or that go with the thing you bought, or by the way, we have these popular materials
or whatever it is that people tend to buy.” And because once they bought from you once,
obviously, they’re more likely to come back and buy again. And just by sending that Win-back
sequence, you can shorten the time between orders. And I think people tend to just… They send
that welcome sequence, they maybe send the abandoned carts, they get that first order,
and then they roll people into their regular cadence of one-off emails. Right. And they don’t think about like, “What could
we automate to bring them back sooner and shorten the time between orders?” Do you recommend some sort of offer in the
Win-back with a coupon? Or is it just an email to alert (or) let them know that you’re still
there? That coupon is really effective. Okay. Obviously, you don’t want to condition people
to expect discounts every time they buy from you, because then they’re going to become
not great customers. But yeah, to get them back sooner, especially
if it’s something that they might need another of, that can be super effective. And I think… I’ve really been paying attention
lately, too. We’re also hungry to get new customers and forget about the people that
I’ve already spent money. Yeah. And it’s like, they’ve already… We’ve already
delivered to them. They’ve already spent their hard-earned money with them. So why wouldn’t
we incentivize them, especially if they’ve bought a full price item? I think that win-back
is… You could probably even set something up automated
that way. Anybody that bought something full price, offer them a discount, just as like,
“Hey, thanks for trusting us with your cash, the first time around.” Yeah. I also really like both in the Welcome
sequence and in that Win-back sequence, sort of a passive research gathering email. So
like, “Tell us more about you so we can segment you more effectively, or tell us –not like
leave a review of this product– what were you looking for when you started shopping
for wool tennis shoes or whatever it is?” And then that passive data collection doesn’t
cost you anything, but after about 200 to 250 responses, you might have insight into
what needs to be in your product description or what needs to be in your welcome sequence
to encourage more purchases. Absolutely. Data is all-powerful. And then
I think that with the automations, you just got to take a step back and realize that what
you’re sending (to) these people is so much more targeted and in-line with what they’re
actually looking to do on your website. It’s such a better marketing match than the shotgun
email blast… Yeah. …where they’re trying to get everybody with
the same message. It’s like, “Hey…” The perfect sample is like, “This was in your
cart. Here’s the thing you were looking at. Do you want this thing?” That’s such a targeted
message. And then even Post-purchase, like “You bought this thing, leave us a review
about this thing.” So… Mm-hmm. When you get it so niched down to exactly
what these people are looking at and interacting on your site, you get way higher response
rates. Yeah, for sure. There’s some crazy stat out
there that’s like segmented emails generate 38% more engagement or something like that
from opens, and clicks, and purchases.. Yep. And then just taking that a step further.
–just doubling down and what you said earlier– absolutely set all these animations up first,
because they’re going to make you way more money than your email blast. mm-hmm. And I think we sort of… We touched
on some of the emails that people aren’t really sending that they could, and that was the
“must-haves”. Like the Welcome sequence and the Win-back and the Abandoned Cart. But I’m starting to see some of these startup
brands, especially in the apparel space, do some really interesting stuff. Are you guys
familiar with Outdoor Voices? Yes, Absolutely. Yeah. They sent this email… A friend of
mine ordered leggings from them, and they sent her an email that was like, “Hey, we’re
going to get these leggings. And they’re going to be really tight. And they’re supposed to
be tight. And here’s why. They’re going to loosen up a little bit, but the fabrics that
we use is a little tight at first, just so you know.” “And if anything… If they do end up being
too tight, don’t worry. You can return them, but we’re just giving you a heads up.” I’m
thinking of that as the “pre-order receipt objection reducer.” So, I can’t imagine how
many returns that’s cut down on. Oh. So many. It prepped people to know what to expect.
Yeah. Insane. I’ve never seen any eCommerce brands do that proactively. Simplr Ad
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trial at simplr.ai/honest. So, one time, I did Smile Direct Club. I got
the braces or whatnot. But they were so new when it was coming out and I was enthralled
by their marketing and I was like, “I’ve always hated this little gap that…” Whatever. I
did it right (laughs) (laughs) But they were just building up their automations.
And it was like, I purchased this thing and then silence for three weeks. Oh… I was like, “That was not cheap. (laughs)
What’s going on with my money?” So, if you have a product like that, where it’s expensive
and it takes a while to… It’s a custom product or something (to where) I gotta go (and) customize
this part for you. But you gotta keep the clients in the know
after that. I’m sure that they fixed that by now. But, I remember that when I was like,
“What the hell’s going on?” Right. Silence but it’s right after you’ve
given them money. Right. For sure. Right. I thought I bought from Smile Direct, not
Smile Indirect. (laughs) Ugh. Oh, yeah. Sorry. (laughs) So things to consider. If you know that there’s
a particular set of products in your store that need a longer lead time, you should set
up automations like, “Hey, we got your order. It takes about a week for this to get pushed
out the door. We’re going to keep you informed, you’re going to get that…” The more information you give someone about
something they’ve exchanged money and value for, they’re gonna… No ones gonna complain
that you sent them too many emails about… Communicating. Right. About the thing they already bought. Yeah. Yeah. (Lianna and Chase) Exactly. Yeah. And how can you use that time to get
them even more amped about the thing that they bought? Like, “We’re making this just
for you…” A client of mine, Manly Bands, they sell wedding
rings. And they do custom rings and that obviously takes a longer lead time. And we’ve talked
about for them like, “Sending the order confirmation, here’s what to expect. Here’s how people are
going to start making your ring.” And then over the course of the next 4 weeks,
saying a little bit more about the actual ring smelting process, and the stamping, and
carving, and jewel setting, and where the jewelers come from and their experience, and
that kind of stuff.” So, that by the time they actually have the
ring in their hands, they’re like “I know everything about this. I’ve been waiting for
weeks to get it and I’m so excited.” Instead of just saying like, “It’s almost done. It’s
almost there.” Yep. It’s almost like a secondary welcome
series. But by the time they get their custom-made ring, you’ve created a brand evangelist out
of this guy who’s (maybe) a nerd and is probably like, “This is cool stuff. I’m learning about
this ring.” Yeah. And you’re reinforcing that it was a
good idea to drop thousands of dollars on this ring. Absolutely. But to go back to some of these
other automations that you can set up and maybe some like the easier ones that I see,
the one low hanging fruit… I hate that term. (laughs) (laughs) I hate fruit in general. (laughs) I do hate fruit in general. But that’s a whole
different topic. He really does. (laughs) Really? (laughs) Oh my god. (laughs) I’m a carnivore. Meat and potatoes kind of
guy over here. Meat and potatoes kind of guy for sure. Oh
my god. (laughs) But here’s something… Birthday email. It’s
so easy to set that up. It’s one piece of data and half the time you get it during checkout. Send somebody a discount code during their
birthday, or just wish them a happy birthday if you don’t do discounts with your brand.
That’s just an easy automation setup that half the people don’t do it. Yeah. Or if they do it, they use the default
copy that comes in either Shopify or Klaviyo or both that’s like, “Congratulations, full
name. It is your birthday…” (laughs) “…on this date, insert date. Here is a candle
graphic. Good job being born.” And you’re just like, “This is horrible.” The kind of
thing you get from your dentist or your vet on your pet’s birthday. That’s either thing
that you hate. Fruit and animals. Wow. (laughs) Broad categories of things to hate. (laughs) I’m just cutting out half of it. (laughs) (laughs) Oh, yeah, just cut all that. The
other thing that I’ve seen with the birthday emails that I thought was super slick, is
sending a birthday email on your brand’s birthday. Ooh! It’s another opportunity to reach out and
be like, “Hey, we’ve got an excuse to celebrate. We started this business, 4 years ago on this
day and that’s why we’re doing a 15% off sale.” That is cool. That’s a fantastic idea. Never heard of that. And then it just gives you time, especially,
to tell your brand’s story again. Maybe, include some interesting facts. Here’s one that I’m doing right now. So, I
work with a local tattoo shop here in Columbus, and they’re sending emails on the tattoo’s
birthday. Ooh! They’re like, “This thing is 6-months-old
now. It’s probably perfectly healed. We’d love if you send us a picture of it.” Oh, so smart. That is very smart. Solves a huge problem for tattoo artists. Was that your ideas? Oh, yeah. That was my idea. Oh, look at him. Nice. He’s got a good idea. Well, I worked there for five years before
I became this eCommerce expert. That’s my backstory. (laughs) His back tattoo’s story. Oh, that’s a whole another story. Is it a phoenix? Like Ben Affleck? Oh, wait, he has a back tattoo? Ben Affleck? Oh. Did y’all not see these photos. It was
like, Ben Affleck. Jennifer Garner divorced him, his life fell apart, and then he got
a giant, phoenix back tattoo. Oh. I’m gonna have to do some Google images
after this. Yeah. Annette’s got two things to research:
automated emails and back tattoos. (laughs) I’m a busy girl. (laughs) Some data collection agency somewhere
wants that. Okay, so I like those ideas. The brand birthday
and then a post-purchase… The product birthday… I mean, you can even
just go back to eCommerce with it. If you’ve got a product that fails over time, something
a little more reusable… We have a client that is… They have a towel. It’s a sports
towel for going to the gym, going to yoga, whatever. That thing is gross after six months.
But they don’t want to put that in their copy. (laughs) (laughs) Right. They’re like, “If you work out every day,
you’ve probably washed this thing 72 times and it’s not made out of diamond so it’s probably
a little rough. Do you want a discount code for a new one?” Oh! Nice. Yeah. Okay. Anticipating the customer’s needs there. Yup. Yeah. And you can do the same thing with things
that maybe don’t completely depreciate but needs care. So these shoes that have been
making the rounds, Rothy’s –I’m actually wearing a pair right now– why not send an
email three months after that’s like, “Hey, you’ve been wearing these around. Remember,
they’re washable, It’s been three months, you might need to throw them in the wash.
Here’s how to do that again.” Very cool. I didn’t know that was possible. I know how to use a washing machine, so… (laughs) Buys new clothes every time. I want
to chat just… I know it’s not really like a founder story episode. But I do want to
ask really quick when the merging of your passion for comedy and copywriting… You said you needed validation on that, but
how does that work for you? Because we always want to encourage any of our listeners to
really go after –even if it’s something that’s not in the marketplace yet– they can be a
trendsetter. Do you find other people that are copywriting
like you or other comedians that are trying to find like find their ground as artists
and actually make money in a different arena? I actually just had an issue with somebody
sort of swiping some of my branding. Ooh! So, there are copywriters out there. There
are some other copywriters who use humor and they are fantastic. So it’s… I’m not the
only one by any stretch of the imagination. Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery,
but go get your own. Yeah, but plagiarism, maybe not super flattering. I mean, I looked up to a few people in the
eCommerce space as we started to get more and more niched down into this, as we were
growing the agency and growing our business. I started meeting these people out, and just
becoming their friends and then slowly telling them, “Yeah, I ripped this off one time. Sorry.” (laughs) We call it swiping. Yes. Swiping. Swipe that
from you. It’s like the spirit of the thing. Maybe not
the actual word. Yeah. It’s not verbatim. Exactly. Oh, yeah. I mean, I had gotten trouble once
for using a photo I didn’t have the rights to. This was 10-15 years ago, and I had to
pay money for it. Yeah. I think there’s room for everybody because
we all have different takes on humor and copy. My thing is like, how do we connect it with
conversions? How do we use it strategically to build relationships?
And even within that, the types of projects that I like doing and the sense of humor that
I have are going to be different from other “humor copywriters” out there. I think there’s
room to play. And I like… Just your two examples that
you’ve used. The stormwater, I believe and then gardening equipment. I think that’s what
I was wondering when we were first getting ready to interview you. What brands, –I don’t
want to say are allowed to use humor– but which ones does it work for? You kind of blew
me away with those two. So I like that. Really switching it up. And if you have a boring
product, maybe it’s the perfect time to bring something like that. Yeah, for sure. And that’s the question that
I get all the time from people in the B2B space. They’re like, “Well, I’m not allowed
to because people expect me to be super formal and corporate.” And I’m like, “Well, what if you tried not
being that way and maybe introduce it slower in a lower pressure scenario. So maybe not
introducing humor for the first time in you’re like sales closing emails, but maybe in like,
click-trigger copy underneath your buttons on your website or in an email after someone’s
been on your list for a year or something like that. Just starting slow and a little
bit cautiously.” eCommerce people tend to go straight for the
humor and be the most willing to do absurd stuff. But that said, I just worked for a
financial services planning firm in Australia, writing some client onboarding email. S o they will have interactions with these people
in person. They’ll come in. They’ll sign a bunch of forms, and this firm will start working
with them on wealth planning and management. And they really wanted to make their clients
feel special, even when they weren’t in the office with them. So, we wrote this very short,
but spaced-out, 6-month drip campaign that first asks them like, “Hey,
what’s your favorite beverage?” And then it sends them an email from this stock photo
–that the marketing director found– that’s a goldfish with a shark fin strapped on it.
And it’s their unofficial mascot. And they call it “Fish Shark.” So I wrote an email from Fish Shark that was
like, “Hello. It me. Fish Shark. Escape from tank. Want to write you and ask you how do.
Oh, wait! Have to go. Here cleaning lady.” Just something bizarre that they wouldn’t
expect from their financial services firm. And they were like, “This is us. This is still
us.” I included a GIF of somebody on a rugby team slapping someone else’s butt and they
highlighted (it). They were like, “This is our company culture.” (laughs) Oh my gosh, that’s amazing. (laughs) It happens where you wouldn’t expect it, you
know? Yeah. I mean, it goes back to… Most people
that are building an eCommerce company, they want the freedom of doing whatever the heck
they want. That’s why we do this business. Who says you can’t write copy however you
want it? Yeah. Who said you can’t inject humor? I think that’s
fantastic. And I’m going to take a page out of, Lianna’s book over here and try to make
it look… Be more funnies. (laughs) Yeah. Just have more fun. Because if you’re
having fun –as long as you’re not being incredibly offensive– most people are probably having
fun with you. Absolutely. Awesome. So if people enjoy you
and your brand of humor, where can they find out more about you? They can find me at punchlinecopy.com and
snapcopy.co where we are not outwardly funny. And then I also share way too much about my
life on Twitter @punchlinecopy. Awesome. Awesome. So you brought up before
the show that you’ve got a product page copywriting service called The Contender. Yeah. How would I be a good fit for that? What kind
of client do you think would benefit from that? So if you have identified that copy is an
opportunity on your product page, and you… Maybe you have the manufacturer’s copy there
and the page isn’t converting as much as you want or the copy is stale, or you just know
that it’s not giving enough information on the product, you’d probably be a good fit. And it’s essentially an audit of the current
product page, both from the design, and UX, and copy perspectives, and then rewritten
copy that’s much more focused around customer research that you provide, and benefits and
future pacing, like, “Imagine how great your life will be with this product, but not in
a gross way.” Ooh. That’s gonna be my term of the week now.
Future pacing. Yeah. It also is my band name now, so don’t take
it. (laughs) Oh, that’s… I’m sensing something like Death
Cab for Cutie. Yes. Awesome. (laughs) So, thank you so much
for joining us today. Is there anything else that you want to leave our audience with? If you’re scared to try humor, just roll it
out in one small place, preferably where you can test its effect and then follow up and
ask people “Hey, what did you think about that? Did you enjoy it?” Because I’ll bet
that they’ll say, yes. Awesome. Thank you so much. Yeah, thank you! Thank you, guys. We can’t thank our guests enough for coming
on the show and sharing the truth. links and more will be available in the show notes.
If you found any actionable advice in this podcast that you’d like to apply to your business,
please reach out at electriceye.io/connect. Please make sure to subscribe to Apple Podcasts,
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