April 5, 2020
Ep. 2 – Value-Based Design – with Nick Disabato

Ep. 2 – Value-Based Design – with Nick Disabato


For any designer, if you’re in house, if you’re
in the agency, whatever you do, how do you practice design in a way that it focuses on
the economic value that you’re capable of generating for a business? Welcome to Honest eCommerce where we are dedicated
to cutting through the BS and finding actionable advice for online store owners. I’m your host Chase Clymer, and I’m your host, Annette Grant, And we believe running an online business
does not have to be complicated or a guessing game. If you’re struggling to scaling your sales
electric guy is here to help to apply to work with us visit electriceye.io/Connect to learn
more. and let’s get on with the show. On today’s episode of honest eCommerce we
talked to Nick Disabato of Draft Revise about Conversion Rate Optimization. Hey everybody, this is Chase Clymer, and Annette
Grant from Honest eCommerce coming to you today with yet another Chicagoan. Today we’ve got Nick Disabato from Draft Revise,
talking about his new book, planning CRO and execution through 2019. How you doing today Nick? Doing great. Thank you so much for having me on. Thank you for being here. Yeah, you’ve got a lot of value to share. And I will tell you that I’ve been a fan of
yours for way longer than you’ve known about me. Yeah, no, no so so quick backstory on me. You probably don’t know this. I was in a band forever. Like eight years, I was in a band. I toured the country it was fun. And doing that did not pay the bills. So I started I was yeah, I was marketing is what I was
doing. And I was kind of doing everything for money
as you would when you’re living a van and you need to pay rent. So I’ve been a fan of Draft Revise forever
and productize consulting, kind of through Brian Casel and then following what you’ve
been doing. So I’ve been a fan of you forever. That’s awesome. Well thank you so much. Yeah and then nowadays I’m running a Shopify
consultancy it’s fun. It’s basically a direct through line from
being in a band play. Absolutely. There’s a lot of parallels in being in a band
and being an entrepreneur. There’s a lot of faith there’s a lot of going
for it and that DIY attitude. Yeah, I feel that. Yeah. Like a little bit of loneliness to. Like sometimes you just need other people
to be around and like, support you through all of that, like the social support group
you get. Absolutely. Yeah, I still love music. My roommate is in a pretty big band, and I
actually hit the road with them randomly enough. So I love the freedom that my agency gives
me and I can go out there and relive the glory days as. Actually he’s playing in Chicago soon. Alright, so my band is actually-my old band
is playing a show in Chicago in like three weeks and after we learn all the songs. Amazing. Well, you’re gonna have to, we’ve got to get
a beer sometime. Oh, absolutely. Cool. So you wrote a book. Tell me about your book. So I wrote a book. It is called Value-Based Design. Some of you listening this podcast might know
a thing in consulting about like value based pricing or value based work, whatever have
you. And my book applies kind of some of those
principles to answer the question of how a designer can prove their worth in any organization. So it’s not necessarily specific to eCommerce,
it’s for any designer, if you’re in house, if you’re in an agency, whatever you do, how
do you practice design in a way that it focuses on the economic value that you’re capable
of generating for a business? Because I don’t, I kind of outright reject
the idea that design is this kind of squishy qualitative thing that people seem to believe
and make a case at the beginning of the book for design directly serving business and also
having the ability to measure and experiment with design decisions in order to improve
the business metrics. So I lay out, how to do that for a designer. I lay out why that simple important and how
you can work with other departments throughout an organization to get them on board with
whatever design decisions you happen to be making, so. Nick? What was the inspiration for the book? Just the questions that you get, you know,
batter with constantly or you just wanted to share? There are like five main questions, I feel
that everybody in design just hand rings about all the time and like the real big one is
should designers code. I’m not going to answer that question on this
podcast. Um, another one is, how do I prove my worth
in an organization. And people ask me this all the time, because
I seem to be doing it a lot like I run a consultancy called Draft and it’s pretty successful. And in a lot of ways value based design is
just a dramatic reading of my job description over 150 pages. Like, I don’t feel like what I do is crazy
or weird. I feel like what I do is normal and like our
design should be. And then I tell it to other designers and
they think I have six heads and I would like them to not believe that. I would like what I do to be more normal throughout
the industry. And I don’t see any reason why it have to
be. Nice. So what are some of those five questions that
you’re always getting asked? Should designers code? Does user experience really focused on the
user? How do I prove my worth in an organization? Design, how it looks or how it works? That’s another big one. And usually, it’s like, do designers need
to prototype like, that’s another big one, too. They just need to make comps or do they make
need make like a functional prototype? Do you feel like the book is just for designers? Or is it also focused for people that hire
designers or have designers on their team? That if you hire designers, you should read
this book. I think that if you are a developer, you might
read this book and get some interesting things out of it and scratch your head a little bit. But like other than that, it’s probably for
people who are working with designers directly, hiring them – sourcing that talent. Because if you read this book, it should give
you a sense of what to look for in a designer, like what kind of skills would be helpful
in your job search. It’s not just knowing, you know, graphical
principles or layout and behavior like I do, I come from user experience design background. It’s more having a sense of how the design
actually has business ramifications. And so if you are able to talk with marketing
and sales effectively, if you are able to dive into analytics and look at the like quantitative
impact of your work. If you’re able to focus more on research,
and by research, I mean, both talking to customers, talking to users, and going into analytics,
going into heat maps, doing more quantitative passive types of research that a lot of people
that might be more of a data science background. If you are a designer who understands data
and experimentation, then you are already pretty much all the way there to running a
value based design practice, even though you may not necessarily call it that, to answer
your question directly about who could benefit from this. If you’re hiring design talent, you would
then know how to train people up because you would have. Okay, well, maybe they have some background
and research designers most frequently do. How you expand that to reflect other parts
of your design practice, like, how do you take the research, synthesize it into interesting
design decisions that could potentially move the needle for the business. And then how do you roll them out in a way
that allows you to measure impact and see if your hunch was correct? How do you critique them effectively with
a sense of the businesses metrics in mind, understand whether or not it would actually
help the business? It’s like moving one direction, like one step
further in the right direction, to making sure that designers are actually focusing
on, on the consequences of their actions, right? It’s not just I made a compliment, I handed
it off to developer. Whoo hoo, that’s great. There’s something more to it, right? There’s something there are consequences to
what you do when you roll it out. And designers are often insulated from that
if they like launch a redesign and conversions drop, the honest doesn’t really fall on the
designer and I don’t understand why. It’s like it should. And that’s a scary type of responsibility
to be having that I think it’s very important. Yeah, I feel like your book actually would
be super impactful for eCommerce business owners. You’re going to be usually throughout the
year many times talking to designers or making choices that are going to impact the user
experience on your website and knowing how to properly approach design in an eCommerce
environment. And i.e like the actions and the choices you
make with the look and feel of your website directly correlate to the money that is being
brought in from sales like a lot of people don’t get that they they think you can just
switch stuff up willy nilly and nothing, you know, nothing’s gonna happen. Yeah, absolutely. And I think that like, that’s something that
I have to set up very early on. With my client engagement, so I have a welcome
packet that I send along to all of my prospective clients. And it basically says, you know, thank you
so much for considering this. Here’s all the dumb logistics, but also, I’m
a CRO guy, but I’m not really like a marketing person, I’m a designer. And so I believe that the things that I’m
doing to actually increase revenue on your store are in many ways design decisions, and
that can involve improving the user experience of your cart. Pretty classic CRO thing, right? It can involve improving the performance of
the site, like reducing page load time and fixing a lot of bugs in your JavaScript. Like sometimes I’m just staring into the matrix. It can involve reworking the layout and behavior
of your product pages. That’s a very frequent thing that I do. And that’s a UX thing, right? Like I’m prototyping and then sending along
a comp to people and you as a client, and as a store owner I have to come to expect
that from you right. It’s you I’m going to be sending you a comp
and that I’m going to ask us to get on a calling critique that comp. And people are surprised by that, I feel? They might already have a design resource
on staff, they might be more focused on illustration. A lot of store owners believe that design
is still a visual sheen, and not necessarily the type of underlying functionality that
I focus on. And so the consequence of this is that I have
to like, redefine what they think design might be or what they have come to believe design
is their store, their team that doesn’t, you know, I don’t think it ends with a welcome
pack. And I do think that’s something that has to
happen as you keep going on with the engagement. But this is something that a lot of software
companies practice, especially like online SAS type businesses, when they think about
design, they think about it in the way that I think about design or when larger corporations
think about design as it is not different from what I’m talking about, but I’m usually
working with stores like they might be Shopify plus, but there are a team of like 30 tops
and there might be three or four people actually focused on improving the actual store experience,
the restaurant, the warehouse manufacturing, there’s a weird disconnect between the actual
like I’m making the products and selling the products and then there’s not enough resources
put in to the actual practice of the store and they don’t treat it like, like a typical
tech company would treat itself. Yeah, I read a lot of the things that you’re
saying here. Funny enough come up in like the lean startup. That mentality of testing and making data
driven design decisions are actually found in that book, oddly enough, and it has nothing
to do with design. That type of approach to design is the correct
approach, especially in the environment we’re in the eCommerce, you know, Shopify, Magento,
all those things have metrics and analytics that are so easily testable. And you can see the impact that happens. Granted, if you have the the traffic to give
you those insights. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. And like I don’t think that anybody listening
to this podcast thinks that they have enough resources on their store, right? I don’t think they have enough people working
on it. If you do, that would be surprising, because
I’ve never actually encountered that. So if that’s the case, you have to make the
most of it. And if you’re going to do that, honestly,
lean startup is a good methodology to be pursuing. There’s another book by Cennydd Bowles and
James Box called Undercover User Experience Design. And it’s on the face. It’s about how to do UX design, when you don’t
have any administrative support or resources within the organization. How can do it on the fly. But really like, all of it is for zero dollars
and in your spare time. Okay, you can fit that into your process,
you can hire me and then I have a process and I’ll tell you about it. But more likely than not, you’re probably
not going to work with me and you need to figure out a way to do this because you’re
probably leaking revenue on your store and not knowing how or why? Or that’s going to happen at some point and
you’re going to want to have a process in place to actually put it into action. And I think that, understanding treating your
online store like it’s a tech company a Shopify does, right? Like they’re a tech company and Magento does,
you need to treat yours like it is too. And that will allow you to create a process
that is more legible to the people that work with you and results in better product as
in the actual stuff that’s being put on your store, like the actual web pages and user
experience of it, that will be shipped more frequently and at better quality. And you probably want that I think everybody
wants that but they don’t know how to get to that. I think it is a little bit of education on
our part as consultants to explain that type of mentality and how they should be approaching
their store and their design. And I think most ecommerce owners, like business
owners or entrepreneurs and they had a really cool idea, a really cool product and they
worked out that product market fit. They aren’t thinking about the data that’s
available to them on their online store and how that can like translate to lost dollars. Yeah, yeah, they don’t even know that it’s
there, much less that they can analyze it, much less how to analyze it, much less how
to take action on it. And so if you were to read my book, dear store
owner or subscribe to my mailing list or whatever have you, I basically spend my entire job
trying to layout how to do that process and how to gain a greater understanding of how
your customers operate, because I don’t think customer service is the only channel you want
to be using to understand how your customers operate and think and how they make purchasing
decisions and what trips them up from UX capacity when they’re going on to the store. And I don’t think a whole lot of stores-they
might say they understand their customers, but then I come in with a bunch of stuff that
surprises them. And I’m like, okay, now do you understand
your customers? Like, oh, wait a minute, this has been shifting
and we’ve been no. Okay, great. What do we do about it? No like this is a very common conversation
for me to be having with people. I think that the more that you can do that,
the more likely it is that you’re going to find success. Being online and having a store rather than
running a brick and mortar, or whatever else operation you’re going on Amazon giving up
on life? I don’t know. Well, I mean, you’ve been doing this quite
awhile, CRO value based design. What are some commonalities you see in the
stores that you’re working with? Or maybe not even the stores that you’re just
working with? Just out there, like where people are making
mistakes that, you know, you’re constantly finding again and again? Yeah, I mean, the “not researching your customers
thing” is probably the biggest fundamental one, but like, over and over again, I see
mobile lagging desktop by roughly two thirds and that sucks. So a lot of my job is spent, like improving
the mobile experience. Most Shopify themes out of the box are not
mobile first, most dev shops are not actually structured to be mobile first, which is deeply
unfortunate in the year of our Lord 2018. I spend a lot of time trying to convince people
that hey, 88% of your traffic is on mobile, and they’re converting at 1.8. That’s bad. And so at a very high level, that kind of
sucks. I see a lot of problems with internationalization
not only in terms of languages or currencies, but also in terms of payment providers. So a lot of the bill end up putting all of
their ad spend into like a broader international bucket for whatever reason, and then people
will come in from Brazil that will expect a specific payment method that just doesn’t
exist. It’s not MasterCard, or I’ll see that happen
pretty frequently. So, you know, the symptom could be that you
didn’t support that payment method. The cause would be also that you drove a lot
of traffic in from Brazil, maybe you should get a better lock on your ad spend and figure
out where your traffic is coming from and how you’re promoting yourself. Another thing that I see is a lack of queuing
on email. And I know that sounds weird and sort of unrelated
to CRO but you know that cart abandonment emails increase conversion rate. And so if I’m here to increase conversion
rate, I need to make sure your emails are actually firing, having opt-in boxes on cart
abandonment in stock notifications and your general orders. Usually get one or two not all three. So that is pretty common. Signing or buying a product with a dummy credit
card going through the actual checkout flow and setting bugs on it. No store on or actually does this. I would I’m sure someone out there is like
actually Nick D or wrong I do it. That’s great, you’re very special. No store knows actually do this. I think those are the biggest ones that I
see is, just people don’t actually QA their own stores are too busy shipping costs. I get it. That’s totally fine. That’s why I come in and QA your score for
you, and then tell you all of these horrifying things and we can fix them. So yeah, I think that’s that’s it for the
initial list. Yeah, I think that everyone we talked about
this last time with Kurt Elster. Actually it was just like everyone, you know,
have your mom, your brother, your sibling, run through your store, not only on their
desktop computer, but on their on their cell phone too. Give them your credit card, and just shut
up and watch and you’ll see the nightmares they unleash. usertesting.com – that is your website. I’m not being paid by usertesting.com to do
this, but there are startup that recruits and executes usability tests for you. And you can literally put together a series
of questions that say check out with a dummy credit card or my credit card or anything,
and they will go through and do it and within three hours, I think it costs $250 for five
participants, so it’s like 49 a video You can set up these questions in probably about
half an hour. Sit back and wait. And then, you know, pour yourself a nice snifter
of bourbon and and get your iPad out and a pad of paper. And just take a very deep breath before you
just watch people tear into your store. And they’re strangers. They have no reason to be nice to you. No, that’s an amazing resource for all of
our listeners. Yeah, yeah, you might want to do that on a
Friday night. So you have the whole weekend to regroup. Yeah, like Saturday morning, you like you
know, pour yourself some drink, meditate, and then just think about what you’re going
to do with your life. Like that’s back. Hi, the situation if you’ve never done it
before, the first time will probably cause that app – Is it screen recordings? Yeah. Are they like, is there a company audio of
them just trash talking? Oh, yes. No, it’s a voiceover of them. They are on a headset and they’re talking. Their inner monologue through when they’re
doing usability test. And you can ask them anything. They have a lot of prompt questions. It’s like Survey Monkey like you can build
a canned thing. Unimaginative or don’t know where to start. And, so one of them is a five second test
where it literally flashes your homepage of the store on for five seconds and then disappears. It’s like what is this? Tell me everything type as much as you want
talk as much as you want. There are so many stores out there that their
landing page view on either even on desktop you don’t know what the hell they’re selling. I had a client once that their masthead just
said we just changed your life. And it was like a photo of the product but
the text was over it so you couldn’t really see what it was. And all five of the usability test participants,
like the name of the product was in the domain name and they still didn’t know what the product
was. And I was like, this is all you need to do
is changed it to we sell x you know?Just please, like beat you over the head x. Here it is to help your SEO to like, come
on. Yeah, I feel that goes back to this, you know,
value based design. Like, while design is cool and you want to
like have a unique website, don’t break best practices to try to be cool because all you’re
going to do is confuse the hell out of your customers. Yeah, yeah, I mean, as eCommerce grows more
mature, interaction models become more and more familiar to customers. And depending on your demographic, of course,
like I work with a company that sells to mostly like senior aged women, and so they don’t
know what a hamburger menu is. So you have to make it very obvious. But that’s the exception. Almost everybody who’s listening to this podcast
can probably like, discuss some of the things that are most comments the layout and behavior
of an online store like where to expect the Add to Cart button where to expect the Image
Gallery where to expect the Menu on mobile. And people know that like your customers know
that and so don’t rock the boat too much don’t do anything weird, like, just making it weird. Just be normal. And by making it weird you’re also letting
your profits on fire. Your lot yeah, you sure are aren’t you? Support for our podcast comes from our friends
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that’s simplr.ai slash honest. My concern right now is the store owner making
sure I’m ready. I mean, most of my shoppers are on mobile. How is that changing the way that you work
with customers or that when you were writing the book, how quick do you think that that’s
changing and where everything will be focused on mobile? Because like you said like Shopify, Magento,
some of those platforms, mobile, still kind of secondary. When do you think it’s going to shift over
to will, where mobile will be primary. Concern it in the design, and I think that
skews so many things. I want to believe that mobile first will be
adopted in two weeks, you know, but like, Luke Wroblewski wrote his book “Mobile First”
that was considered fairly influential in I think 2011? We got the responsive to web design I’ll say
in 2009 and I can’t tell you how much I’ve been sword brandishing about mobile. And people don’t seem to understand that,
or they just accept it. They just assume that it’s okay that mobile
can be 1/3 desktop. You know, who’s not accepting one third conversion
rates on mobile? Amazon, Apple, Google, they’re coming up with
payment models that you can leverage better. So one of the only truly amazing developments
that has happened for Shopify is that it’s gotten Google Pay and Apple Pay, natively
integrated. And having that connected to your stripe merchant
accounts. I’ve seen that not turned on, on stores. And then I literally, go into your admin,
click a checkbox, close the tab and become a wizard. Because all of a sudden, you’re making way
more money because people have iPhones and iPhones convert. I want more developers. If you’re a developer, and you’re listening
to this Yyu’re a designer and you’re listening to this, like the number one thing you can
do is have uncomfortable conversations with store owners about how mobile should be the
first competent design. And everybody critique stuff on desktop. They, you know, if you need to shrink your
browser window real tiny, like, please do it, like whatever it takes to get that breakpoint
triggered, so that you can get a hamburger menu and a different interaction model. I don’t know like, at some point, desktop
is going to dwindle to zero percent of your revenue. And that’s probably going to happen within
the next 15 years. For a lot of my clients desktop or mobile
is something like 88 to 90, something like that. That’s the highest I’ve seen the lowest I’ve
seen is 68 or so. And like that’s, still you shouldn’t be rocking
the boat on it. So to answer your question about when I mean,
I hope soon it should have been five years ago, to be entirely frank. You should be thinking about mobile before
you think about desktop, even though it’s sexier to think about desktop. It’s less cramped and annoying to think about
mobile. And it requires a different mindset. You need to start learning about that now. Yeah, you just blew some minds over here. Yeah, I’m silent. Because like that I’m thinking. I just, I know that I get stuck on my laptop. And then I look at how many of my users are
on mobile. And I know the demographics of it. And I mean, I don’t even know if a lot of
them have a desktop or a laptop, honestly. You know, they’re working off of their explicitly
off of their mobile device. I know a lot of people that don’t own personal
computers now. Yeah, I think that’s going away too. So, as far if a store owner comes to you,
and mobile isn’t in that conversation, do you sway that conversation immediately? Or how does that go? Yeah, so usually, if we’re in like the initial
like prospecting phase, I’ll often like very politely ask for access to your Google Analytics
just so I can take a look at some numbers and just usually helps me like estimate with
pricing and the justification I give as a CRO, guys because I need to understand if
you have enough traffic and enough sales to get statistically significant, like AB tests. So they’re usually happy to do that. And they hand it to me. And then once you give me the keys to the
Corolla, I can drive anywhere. So I’ll go into your mobile tab, and I’m like,
“Oh hey, it looks like 88% of your traffic is mobile, and it’s converting at like, less
than one third of desktop. Have you noticed this and they grown, but
they’ve normalized the practice of ignoring it, or focusing on desktop. And so then I have to be like, well, would
you like that to be 10 or 20%? Higher or more because we can do some things
here and hopefully fix that and they’re like, Oh yes, my god. I’m like okay great. Well, the way you do this is by eating your
vegetables and focusing on mobile, and a lot of people then it goes from okay, we’re going
to start saying we focus on mobile and then not do it. To we’re going to do it in this like slapdash
piecemeal way. And then it usually takes like a couple months
of me just gently suggesting to other people that they need to be going mobile first. Because they don’t have the processes in place,
they don’t have the mindset in place. And that sort of comes about either by piecemeal
tactics or by me if you know, in a perfect world, I sit everybody down in half an hour
long meeting about why mobile is important and how to do it. And that’s the biggest like low hanging fruit
that I get as a CRO guy, I would love nothing more than to not have to half this conversation
so that I can focus on, frankly, more interesting and weird topics. Usually, I’ll fix a lot of stuff on mobile
for a store and then there’s the now what question and then it gets really interesting,
right? Like and I would rather have that sort of
situation happened earlier. That is yeah a new challenging thing. Once you’ve gotten all the like, All right,
here’s my checklist. I’ve fixed all these things. I checked all these things. Now it’s now you’re getting into like, how
can I make this better? This this now it’s like the Wild West. Yeah, yeah. And you have an opportunity to gain leverage
over your other competitors, because so many of them are messing this up. That should be enough to spur you to do it. What is the most unique, you know, not necessarily
split test, the most unique decision you’ve made on a store that you’ve seen that impacted
their bottom line. I had a client once who was selling like-they
sold like key organizers. I have a case study for them on Draft site. They’re called Keysmart and they’re great
they’re wonderful people. But they sold like 8 Keysmarts at one point
and it’s like a Swiss Army knife for your key chain like the flip out these keys. It’s really nice. But they sold all these different products
and I’m like, Well, okay, so what does the skew breakdown look like on this and I go
into their GA and see that like their main flagship model is something like 78% of all
the sales. Like okay, so there’s long tail here fine. Are they the most passionate customers? Well, kind of, but not really. What if we run an AB test that change the
whole website to only show this one model of Keysmart. What if? What would this look like? And I did it. And the results were basically no drop in
conversion rate, no drop in revenue, people kept buying just the normal version of the
Keysmart. And I looked at that I took this and handed
it to the CEO. I’m like, I know you might be wedded to these
other products. How much in manufacturing expenses, would
you reduce your entire operation by if you got rid of these seven models today? It’s like, oh, like 40%. Like, okay, so if you lose 40% your expenses,
what happens to your profit? Oh, it goes up by 40%. Okay, great. I’m going to roll this test out to everybody. I’m going to make your life a lot easier. You have now one thing to produce, and then
he did and so it wasn’t even a test on revenue wasn’t even test on conversion rate, conversion
rate was fine, was it? It was entirely on expenses. They kept chasing different versions of this
thing that they just frankly didn’t need to be doing. It might have resulted in a brief like sugar
high on their mailing list where they get a few sales of the new thing from their most
passionate fans. But who needs more than one key organizer? Or I don’t know. I don’t. Yeah, that’s I love that whole concept there
because it’s like, it’s outside the box. And that’s why, you know, you’re a consultant
is like, that wasn’t a traditional avenue that you usually explore. It’s, well, you guys have all these products
are 90% the same? Why do you have more than one? Yeah. Now, I think that also, again, because I hire
consultants, freelancers, and that’s also. You can’t just look at that from the hiring
perspective of you’re getting their expertise at looking at, you know, hundreds, potentially
thousands, tens of thousands of stores and getting all of that information, all that
learning that they have versus you looking at your one store and your product every day. So that’s, I think one of those selling points
that sometimes it gets difficult sometimes when you’re trying to hire and justify prices. And that’s what you have to really think about
is that solution is probably something that never ever crossed their minds in hiring you
for the task at hand. And you just completely changed their business
and their lives actually outside of work. Yeah, that guy went on a long vacation. Sounds fantastic. Yeah, it’s like wait, I can just like drop
ship this from anywhere and be on a boat. No, that’s I love that story. That’s great. Pretty much happened yeah. Know like that Chase had an excellent question
and you even trumped them with the answer. That’s fantastic. So what are some other pieces of advice that
you’d have for you know that solopreneur, churning out working on that product market
fit? You know, they’re usually 90% of everything
done within their business is done by themselves. Like, what are some pieces of advice that
you have for them? Are you talking about for store owner or for
another Shopify consultant? Because I have different answers. Got it. If you’re a store owner, and you and you’re
wearing a bunch of different hats, one of the things that you can do is a lot of like,
low involvement, like low resources type stuff. So running heat maps, if you go to hotjar.com
that’s like the industry standard one. I believe their paid plan is $49 a month,
you can probably afford that. If not, they have a trial, congratulations. And it’s literally you install some JavaScript
on your theme. And you type in the URL of the heat map that
you want, and then you wait a week and that’s it. And then you get a sense of where people are
tapping or clicking and not tapping and clicking and where people are not scrolling, so on
and so forth. That gives you a lot of different insights
into how you can be improving the usability of your page. If you’ve hired out other developers as contractors
or something like that, then you have a build queue for them. And you can say, okay, well do this, this,
this and this. And it’s usually heat maps are good for like
cleaning up pages, because it’s like, well, people aren’t caring about this, this, this
and this. And while we’re loading them, it’s increasing
page weight. So the more you basically decrease page weight,
the better your conversion rate, there’s, you know at least at the beginning, so figure
that out. Install image compression plugins on your
Shopify store. I can’t believe I’m even just blindly recommending
an app, but the one that I use is called Crush.pics. It runs super well and your images are the
biggest page load issue on your store. Go on usertesting.com get a few user tests
in place. Note that I haven’t even recommended you run
an AB test yet if you’re a solopreneur and you don’t have enough traffic for your store. You should be running AB tests, you should
be improving the experience on site and getting enough traffic eventually to get specifically
significant. So what number should they be shooting for? Usually 500 per variations, so we’re talking
maybe maximum, like absolute minimum 1000 orders per month, something like that. I personally, I only work with Shopify plus
stores. So like, you know, keep that in mind in terms
of the volumes that you might be thinking about. But that’s also stores that would be able
to hire a CRO and have somebody do that for them. So, but like, you know everybody asked for
the number I just generally say like 1000 you’re in safe territory to do at least one
round a month. Keep in mind that when you have a active test
running you cannot change the page at the time so if you’re also-a like move fast and
break things type person, AB testing is more of a move slow and fix things type process. So that might not be for you from a like mindset
standpoint, that would be a whole different podcast episode we talked about. Offer gift cards to customers and get on one
phone call with them per month, and then give them like $100 gift card to your store for
their time. That is a very good way to end just ask them
how they found out about you, if they ran into any issues with their purchase if they
had any questions about assembly or if they had any objections, what other competitors
they looked at. Why they went with you over those competitors. This is what’s commonly called a Jobs-to-be-Done
interview and that’s based off of the Clayton Christensen like model that he came up with
around the innovation and disruption. If you Google “Jobs-to-be-Done interview”
or JTBD interview you will find very good scripts to go through on a phone. And everybody hates doing that. But I tell you, will sit there just transcribe
the call and thank me later – you will come up with so much to change it will be amazing. How many stores Do you think really do that? Honestly, Zero. Okay, I actually, interestingly enough, I
gave that advice to a store owner on Friday and I had a look in the mirror today going
I’ve never done that even though I recommended it. I think that’s an excellent like to especially
a solopreneur I mean, it’s time and it can probably you probably also create a lifetime
customer and that person that you call on the phone, you know? And they’ll probably start, you know, just
emailing you randomly like, “Hey, this doesn’t work or do this or do that.” You know they’re almost like a free consultant
for you and your store, have a loyal customer that I was taking rigorous notes during the
snapshot of all those things that you had as a solopreneur or just a smaller store owner
to get up, you know, to get their revenue up to speed to be able to hire out but those
are all excellent things that I’m going to have to start doing tomorrow or tonight. i mean, you should not do anything this week. For those of you that don’t know that, yeah. Black Friday is in four days. Happy Black Friday season everybody. Yeah, this is gonna come out of the third
week of January. Yeah, but and when is Black Friday going to
go away? That’s for another episode. As a concept. When Singles’ Day takes over. Well, and what now? Singles Day. It’s the shopping day in China its November
11th. Well, we’re getting closer to it, It’s like over 1 trillion of sales in a day. Google “Singles Day Sunday” I thought it was some dating app that was
like gonna take over Singles Day. I’ve never heard of it either. It’s the like anti Valentine’s Day, but then
it became the huge gift giving holiday and it’s because 11 11 look like individual people
– 1111 I know the mind boggles. So you think there’s going to be a big shift
in marketing in the next couple of years to and then that’s going to become an American
thing? Oh, no, I was just joking. Everybody wants, I think people actually respond
well to the like group think of having one big shopping holiday and so I don’t think
it’s going to go away and I think it only got magnified by the internet. Like Prime Day is another big one right like
and what happened with Prime Day, Amazon came up with the idea of Prime Day and now it does
like a bajillion dollars. Yeah, but that’s only if you are selling through
Prime Day. I don’t know if anyone’s successfully doing
sales campaigns through their own store on Prime Day. Oh, no, no, no, I’m just saying they, like
came up with the idea that it’s only two years old. And the idea of a collectivist shopping holiday. Like, it can be anything right “Me Small Business
Saturday”. Yeah. You know the thing is, I like Black Friday
and Cyber Monday. I like this month. I like working. So you know, we had a lot of fun and a lot
of conversations with our clients this month. So I enjoyed it. Yeah, my partner works for the food banks
like giving Tuesday’s her like, D day that’s next week. So yeah, I think that’s a good place to wrap
up since you just crushed it at the end. How will I top it? Well, let’s plug your book one more time. Let’s tell everybody where to find you. And where they’ll be able to the book if you
can let us know. So the book is called Value-based design. If you go to value-based design that’s two
d’s in a row dot org. Or you go to draft.nu/value, you will be able
to go and by the time this podcast comes out, you’ll be able to order the book and hopefully
it will be helpful for you-for the designers you hire or the designer that you are, if
you are one. Really, grateful for the opportunity to be
on this today. Thank you so much for having me. And you also have a free newsletter. Correct? Oh, yeah, go to draftsletters.com or draft.nu/letters
– those letters are going to be very focused on value based design around the time that
you listened to this. If you listen to right when it came out, but
they tend to run the gamut. Like one time I just talked about a sandwich
I wrote once in time I yelled about pasta sauce. You are a very creative writer when it comes
to your newsletter. I enjoy reading them. Thank you. Cool, thank you so much for your time today
and hopefully everyone’s got a lot of action items on their to do list after this. Awesome thank you so much. Alrighty, take care. Thank you. We can’t thank our guests enough for coming
on the show and sharing the truth, links and more will be available in the show notes. If you found any actionable advice in this
podcast that you’d like to apply to your business, please reach out at electriceye.io/Connect. Please make sure to subscribe on Apple podcast,
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