April 3, 2020
Ep. 1 – Revenue Optimization: Make More Money on Shopify – with Kurt Elster

Ep. 1 – Revenue Optimization: Make More Money on Shopify – with Kurt Elster


Dedicated to cutting through the BS and finding
actionable advice for online store owners. I’m your host Chase Clymer and I’m your host, Annette Grant, and we believe running an online business
does not have to be complicated or a guessing game. If you are struggling to scaling your sales
Electric Eye is here to help to apply to work with us visit electriceye.io/connect to learn
more, and let’s get on with the show. On this episode of honest ecommerce we talk
with Kurt Elster. Founder of ethercycle about conversion rate
optimization. Hey everybody, this is Chase Clymer and Annette
Grant from Honest eCommerce. And we have probably one of the most influential
people that I know in the eCommerce space as a guest on the podcast. Funny news is that he’s asked me to be on
his before and I can’t come up with something to talk about. So it’s pretty funny to me that he made it
on here. I would love to welcome Kurt Elster to our
show. So How you doing, Kurt? I’m good. Thanks for having me. My pleasure to be here. Welcome. We’re excited to talk to you today. Absolutely. So let’s get on into it. Why should I care who you are and what you
talk about? Because I exclusively help Shopify merchants
and I do one thing with them, and that’s help them make more money. I’m like, looking at any Shopify store could
tell you. Okay, here are where the hidden profits are. And that is that like, where the profits go,
they’re hiding under the couch. None of that? No, there are from working with hundreds of
Shopify merchants at this point, I have the experience to look at almost any store. I’m sure there are some exceptions and say,
Hey, here’s the stuff you’re missing. Here’s how you will make more money. Oh, I’m kind of nervous to show you my store. But we’ll do that offline. Later. I would love to. Well, let’s how many you said hundreds of
stores over what type of timeframe has that been Kurt? So I became a Shopify partner in 2011. When the then head of the Shopify Partner
Program, Dan Eveleigh saw a store an entirely custom theme we built as our first store for
a local bike shop and amlingcycle. That theme in site still up today, amlingscycle.com
if you want to check that out, desperately in need of a refresh, but the cobblers children
have no shoes. And then around 2015, we said, let’s exclusively
do ecommerce. Let’s exclusively do Shopify. And that was the best decision we ever made. That is a incredible inflection point in our
business, where we said all right, let’s go all in cart to the right horse. Gotcha. So before you were you were doing you’re building
stores on Squarespace, Magento, other other platforms, kind of dabbling in all of them. Even broader than that, I’ll give you the
origin story. I’ve been doing eCommerce for my entire adult
life on and off, starting with eBay in high school. And then I ran. In college, I took an entrepreneurship course
and they said, the teacher handed everybody 20 bucks and said, You got 20 bucks to go
start a business. And mine was one of the most successful because
I started making and selling band t shirts on eBay. But I really didn’t understand copyright at
the time. And then Warner Brothers sent me a nice nasty
gram about that soon after, all right, well, I started buying software, like Microsoft
Office and stuff from the academic stores and selling that eBay got a nasty grant for
Microsoft because apparently I didn’t understand how software licenses work either. And, like really dope malicious I just did
that wasn’t being malicious. I didn’t have the experience. And then after college, I worked as a channel
manager for a eCommerce drop THMotorsports com. And from there, I got up to go to work one
day I knew I was betraying myself by not being an entrepreneur broke down crying, tying my
Chuck Taylors and said quit my job that day with no plan. The very next day I called up a friend of
mine who had lost his job was a talented developers fun employed. It was 2009 the recession was hitting everybody. And I said, Let’s build an eCommerce platform
shooting for the moon didn’t know what I didn’t know. Turns out that’s really hard. So about a year into that we started doing
building WordPress sites, traditional stuff for local businesses, which was a lot of fun
and worked our way very quickly up to doing fulfillment for creative agencies. Like we built a contest site for the foam
off campaign that Verizon ran with the NFL. And then our last non Shopify site was building
this beautiful WordPress site for Hilton Hotels, suitehotel.com that’s still up today as well. Nice. So this is a Honest e commerce I need to know
you really did shed tears when you decided to quit? Oh, yeah. Okay. Yes, entrepreneurship is in my blood. I knew I was betraying myself by working for
someone else by not running, doing my own thing, no fault of their own. And like I had just had been bottling it up
and pushing it down inside is just all came out and that when you’re crying, because you
have to go to work, it’s time to quit your job. No doubt. Did you? Did you see? Was all the money to start your business? Was that was that all your own? Or did your partner pitch in? What did that look like in the beginning? We went to my parents who gave us over the
course of I don’t know how many how long but I think over the course of 12 months, we borrowed
a total of $15,000 one five. And then paid that back in full, so I was
strapped with a small angel investment. Did you cry to your parents? They feel bad for you say fine, here’s some
money. Here’s the story. My dad had, my dad had lost his job when I
was a kid, and didn’t work again became a day trader, but always said over and over. If you’re your own boss, you can never get
fired, you should start your own thing, you should be your own thing, do your own thing. So, even though he was not an entrepreneur
necessarily, there was no one in my family who are entrepreneurs, they saw the value
in it, they appreciate it, they understood the importance of it. And so they they very early on pushed me to
do that. Absolutely. So what was the transition from building these
WordPress stores to finding you know, Shopify and, and kind of focusing all in on that,
you know, was it just happened to cross it or were you trying to fit like a square peg
in a round hole and it just wasn’t working out. So I had a friend we had had worked in a local
bike shop called amlingscycle that I mentioned earlier. That was like one of the things we I was doing
for extra cash and for fun and because I like bikes and I wanted the employee discount I
worked in, in this bike shop, and he would pick our brains on stuff like web stuff, etc. Because it was still very much a word of mouth
business at that time. And he said, you know, we really hate our,
our eCommerce provider, you know, web stuff, help me out here. What can we do? And I said, you know, what are you looking
for? What do you want to like? What do you hate about the current one? He’s like, it’s really hard to use. It’s really limited. And I said, Well, I heard about this thing
called Shopify. That’s it’s so it’s, it looks easy to use. It looks like it’s got flexibility with apps. Why don’t we try that? He’s like, all right, do it. And we charged him like, had to have been
like less than $2,000 to build a design and develop an entirely custom theme for Shopify. And then after that, we got our second Shopify
project was Bandon Dunes Golf Course, a huge golf course in Oregon. And we again same deal built this custom site
out. After every shot by project we go, Well, that
was easy. What was it that it was easy as that, we’re
good at it. It just took us a long time to figure that
out. That’s amazing. So it’s funny that you the first project,
I listened to another podcast all the time by Jason Swank. And the first question he asks when it’s another
agency owners, how much did you charge for that first project? That’s a good one. Yeah, I mean, I’m sure I was I’ve been freelancing
since I was like 16 and I’m sure I was charging $50 and $100 for the dumbest things back then. Everyone undervalued themselves. Yeah. I think that you have a nice saying out there
for for everybody, don’t you? Yeah, charge more. Number one piece of business business advice
I could give anyone is charge more. I guess if Do you have customers? Will that they will pay charge more. Right like keep, initially I figured out based
on supply and demand. That was how I do it was every time I treated
my our availability as a small team, we had three people as the supply and then the demand
was how much time we have left. So if we were fully booked, then I doubled
prices. Everything, unlike and that was how I did
it. It, you know, took a lot of economics classes,
I thought that was a sane approach. But really what’s going on is, as business
people as entrepreneurs, we’re looking for someone to give us permission. So in my case, that supply and demand trick
gave me like a rule, a reason to do it. But the reality is I used to coach freelancers,
that’s how you know that your rate is low, you’re skilled person I believe in you, raise
your rate. And they’re like, well, I can’t raise my rate
until I do. That’s a phrase that you’re asked someone,
well, I can’t raise your prices, they’ll go I can’t do until full stop. It is your business. You could charge literally whatever you want. You don’t need a system. You don’t need permission. You could just do it and change the prices. They’re arbitrary. Yeah, and that’s over here saying in their
head. Just drop the mic. Yeah, no, I agree. And then if people don’t want to pay it, then
you know, you might need to adjust your price or not, or find new customers. The market does not set your rate, you do. Yeah. The value is relative to the person to their
need at that time to the problems. They have to their timeline, to their project,
to the level of risk they are comfortable with. If so, you really don’t get to set the price
it is up to the buyer to say yes or no. And if you don’t give them that opportunity
to pay more well, then they’re not going to do it. Absolutely. So I know we’re getting a little bit tangential
here. And I knew that would happen. If anyone didn’t know me and Kurt are great
friends. And we’re in a mastermind together. And we talk all the time. So I’m always sure that we were going to talk
about some freelance and agency stuff during this, but I’m going to try to bring it back
into the Shopify store to the eCommerce store. So, you have specialized even further since
focusing on Shopify, right? Yeah well, we then we looked at what our it’s
always been looking at what our skills are, like, what’s the overlap between our skill
set and stuff we love and what people want and what are they willing to pay for? And if like in that intersection, what are
the services you should offer? So we started with a unusual model at the
time, and everyone was doing billing by the hour or project based, but you just got a
quote later. So you really didn’t know how you’re getting
billed. I said, “Let’s, let’s simplify that.” When you go to when you purchase a car, they
don’t like give you a proposal for the car, you buy a house, you don’t get a proposal,
you make an offer, and you either get it or don’t. But you have an idea upfront, you know what
the house cost, the car, you know what you can afford. And we don’t do that in the service industry,
which is nuts. So I said, You know what, I’m just going to
do everything fixed price, fixed scope, product ties consulting model. And so my prices are out there, and you can
decide if that if the project is worth the price, and that I see way more people doing
that now, years later, but that was a great way to reduce a big friction point. And that’s really like a lot. All revenue optimization for any businesses
is just looking for those friction points in the buying process and kicking them out
of the way. So whether that’s conversion rate optimization,
or a sales page on a freelance website, it’s like it’s all the same strategies and tactics
at the end of the day. And I appreciate that as store owner when
I, when I’m looking for help with my store, I don’t want to have the back and forth. Let’s have a meeting, let’s talk about it,
see what my needs are. And then all of a sudden they send me a proposal
like. Holy smokes, like you should just told me
out of the gate, I wouldn’t have even wasted your time with the meeting, either. It’s just the price is out of my range, you
know, so I appreciate that when I go late. Yeah, if I want to, I want to purchase something. And if they are just very, you know, transparent
and give me the price, I’ll know right away if I should even reach out with an introductory
email and ask them, you know, if we can do business, so I appreciate that. And I think that saves time on on everybody’s
front, you know, which is very valuable. So I’m down with that for sure. Because I spend a lot of time going back and
forth with people. I’m like, ooh, I can’t, can’t afford Jeff. It’s very egalitarian. Like everyone pays the same price. Like I’ve worked we’ve worked with tons of
of just mom and pop big small business owners people side hustlers, but we’ve also worked
with Jay Leno and Hoonigan and these big, these much larger brands and guess what, Jay? The flip side to that product ties consulting
model is Jay Leno pays exactly the same price, as you know, the bike shop down the corner. So it makes it very fair. Now that and I think, I think as the consumer
also when it is on your site like that, I feel good about that too, that I don’t have
to sit there and negotiate back and forth over and over again, like your prices are
out there, you know, on the internet so people can see them. So there is that honesty part that’s just
there. Right out of the gate. So I do I do appreciate that for sure. Keep keep that going. I play it out. Yeah, no, that’s awesome. Yeah. So something I see quite often when people
are reaching out to us or other you know, agencies or freelancers that are in my circle
is there’s always the touchy question of budget. And as you know, you I think we talked about
this yesterday or it’s just like, you know, the budget question isn’t to see how much
money I can score off you this I’m not in this to like rob you. I’m in this to understand like, Are you trying
to imagine a car dealership, like are you trying to get a Honda or are you trying to
get a Corvette? I need to understand, what ballpark we’re
in here. So I can make sure to tailor what we need
to do to what you can afford. Of course, well, and I think the trick is
to get the when we used to ask, Hey, what’s your budget? And you get the response is always some variation
on prefer not to say, but really in their head. They’re like, Ha, I fooled them. I’m a master negotiator. Like, no! you didn’t like this is not a dinner
party. Like it is impolite to talk about money in
the social context. This is business and we’re adults. Now. The entire point of business is to make money
at a profit. Guess what, we have to talk about no money,
you need to be comfortable talking about your numbers and there is nothing wrong with that. If you can’t do that probably like either
work on it or don’t be in business. But the asking that budget question up front,
it is a qualifying question. It is not designed to screw anybody design
so you don’t waste time like I’m not. I’m not going to roll up into the Bentley
dealership. With Honda money, it’s designed to prevent
those situations. Absolutely. And it helps me push it along in certain directions,
you know, are we going to go something that’s a little more fixed scope, and we’re going
to do an awesome premium theme maybe with our friends from out of the sandbox, do this
that turbo theme, or we’re going to, you know, see how many bells and whistles we can fit
on this new thing and build something custom from the ground up and have some fun with
it. Let’s get into it right now is Black Friday
season, but this isn’t going to come out until January. So we’re getting a few of these in the cans. But you know, for 2019 helping all these stores
to be as profitable as they can be. Let’s kind of get into what you’ve been specializing
in recently, which is conversion rate optimization. Hell yeah. Alrighty, Annette you’ve got a few questions
over there. If you want to rip on them. What is conversion rate optimization? That’s good. Alright. So if we would use the back of the napkin
math, let’s say your store gets 100 people a day and say that’s a decent number for a
validated store hundred people a day. And out of those, one person purchases every
day, that’s a 1% conversion rate number of people we convert from visitor to purchaser,
right. So that most people probably already knew. And that’s our key performance indicator that
we’re looking at that as a measure of our revenue. And there’s other key performance indicators
in there. What percentage of those visitors add to cart? How many, what percent reached checkout? What is the average order value of those purchases? And how many what percent of those people
are returning customers. Those that and the traffic are our key performance
indicators. And they all play into each other. So if I can move the needle on any one of
those, if I could take any one of them and push them up, I have now optimize the store
for revenue. But we talked about conversion rate optimization,
I view myself as a revenue optimization specialist, I just want to move the all of those are levers
for more money in your store. I want to move all of those numbers up into
the right, but specific to conversion rate optimization, is that final number. Hey, can we get more, can we turn more of
our visitors into buyers? Is there an industry average conversion rate? Like? What would? Would you just give a number out there? Would you need to look like interest industry
specifics? You know, if it’s like apparel versus I don’t
know, something else that’s purchased online, but is there something that you like, the
KPI of your customer that you you actually give them right out the gate? Or is that specific to their industry? I call it reading tea leaves, you have to,
you have to have a sense for it. Because there’s several there’s a few key
factors that are going to affect conversion rate, quality of traffic, number one, like
how are you getting people, if they’re coming from reviews that talk about how great you
are, if it’s organic traffic that way. Well, those people are going to, of course
be more likely to buy than someone who just learned about your product seconds ago from
a Facebook ad. So quality of traffic is going to be the biggest
thing that changes your conversion rate. And that’s like number one, why it’s so tough
to compare numbers, because you have to keep all these other things done. The quality of the site is it professional? And, coz that will inspire trust, more people
will buy. What’s the price? The product price and the conversion rate
are going to be inversely correlated, you know, it just flatly, it is much easier to
sell a $25 t shirt than it is to sell a $300 bracelet, right? Like it’s just, it’s different. And so the benchmark there, I use this 50
bucks, if an item is under if the average order values under 50 bucks, it passes the
wife test, I don’t have to ask my wife permission to make the purchase. If it’s over 50 bucks, I should probably check
with my wife before I make the purchase. So that’s kind of my benchmark there. So that has a big impact on it. And then of course, like the industry, the
products, if you have a ton of products, you’re just some supermarket, that’s not going to
have that’s going to have a lower conversion rate. If you’ve got one really focused great product,
they’ll have a higher conversion rate, but All right, I’ll give you the range. For the whole funnel, for business would be
like the typical thing if I just want I want to see it in average store that I will now
consider optimized, I want the add to cart rate to be 10%. That means one out of 10 people add to cart,
that’s great. That means they they were very, they’re engaged,
they’re interested, they got they could find the product they wanted. So that add to cart rate is an indication
of findability of like the first half of the funnel, that means I’ve got good traffic going
to the site, finding the item they want adding it to cart. Then I want half of those people to reach
checkout, if half of the reach checkout, that’s great! Of those, I expect about half of them to make
a purchase. So that’ll put me in a two and a half percent
conversion rate 5% reach checkout rate, 10% Add To Cart rate. Not every store is going to be able to do
that. I mean, I talked to a guy that just today
who is a they sold a fitness product, and in June, they were selling at consistently
4.75% conversion rate. And now that it’s fall, It’s getting colder,
their conversion rate had dropped to 1% So like their seasonality and things, there are
so many factors in there. And that’s what makes it so tough to compare. Gotcha. Now those are, at least giving giving me an
idea, you know, with my store some things that I need to look at, is there a, just to
help our listeners? Is there an app that you can kind of set these
KPIs within Shopify? Do you know off the top of your head? Like, yeah, I’m trying to give some resources
to myself and our listeners, is that is there a plugin that they could do for these KPIs? Or is that just something that they need to
know? I mean, I know they’re on the metrics and
inside Shopify, but Ah like to get reporting? Yes. Hmm. That’s a good question. I wish there was a way to do automated reporting. I don’t know if there is a Gleam probably
does, but it’s really it’s like, and the pricing at least is enterprise level for gleam. And in Google Analytics, which you tear your
hair out trying to set up the advanced stuff at Google Analytics. You could set it up to do automated reports. But what’s really cool is you could build
a dashboard in Google Analytics. So you put your KPIs up there. And then you can have it email you reports
regularly. But please, every merchant is going to be
staring at that dashboard, that app whatever, like every day. Seeing how many people bought, how many people
visited the site, that sort of thing. I’m sure they check their their KPIs, you
just load up a Shopify analytics. And generally you want to look at it over
30 days, if you’re looking at it for like, you know, comparing day to day today, there’s
just not enough data there, it’s going to skew wildly. So I try to look at it 30 day increments. And I also like to tell people to look at
it from the last 30 days versus the 30 days of the previous year, not the 30 days of the
previous metric, because especially think about these 30 days now heading up the Black
Friday and Cyber Monday that is going to perform, hopefully a lot better than the 30 days prior. So those that’s comparing those two segments
is doing yourself this justice, but if you compare it to the previous same segment of
the previous year, you’re going to get a lot better looking to see if there was any growth
or any opportunity. No, absolutely. And then, you know, on that topic, I mentioned
seasonality. And you said compare previously and like right
now things may be slow because people are holding off purchases until Black Friday,
at the time of this recording, but generally a good sniff test I use for. Are we-is this drop something we should be
worried about? Or is it something systemic, like due to seasonality
is, I checked our kids in school? That’s my test. If kids are out of school, purchases in general
go down, they correlate. So like right around spring break, you’ll
see a dip over the summer will be a slow season unless you have a product that is very summer
based like bikes, Christmas break, etc. It’s kind of interesting. And I have three kids, so I assume I’m more
aware of it then. Then someone who didn’t. Yeah, I have my eyes just kind of like got
really wide when that’s something that I do not think about at all. I’m assuming kids are in school right now. Yeah, yeah. Know that that’s very interesting. Support for our podcast comes from our friends
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that’s simplr.ai slash honest. Cool, so Kurt, I am a DIY’er right? I have my own Shopify store. I make a few bucks. Every month for pizza, what is the number
one thing I’m probably overlooking on my store that you would come in there and kick me right
in the butt to fix? Yes, let me know this. Well, there’s a couple things lately I am
shocked and appalled by how many people do not have dynamic checkout buttons enabled. That one drives me nuts. Dynamic checkout buttons, being the “Buy Now
button” that Shopify recently added. Earlier this year when Amazon’s patent on
this technology expired. I’m not kidding. These guys patented a Buy Now button, like,
almost 20 years ago, and it is since expired. That one is so great. So enabling that majority people don’t have
it. And where would they enable that? It’s buried as a theme setting. Okay, see, I don’t know if I have that. I’m gonna have to check. Yeah, help us out with that. And it came out in April. So most themes would have been updated to
support it over the summer. So if you haven’t done a theme update, and
you got your theme before April, you may not have support for it. Not too tough to add, you know, a first of
developers under the bus. It’s about an hour of work. Okay. Yeah, but you have to have Shopify pay enabled
for it right? You can’t be using a third party payment provider
right? Not actually the case. Really? Like authorize we’ve got big client uses Authorize.net
recently added the buy now buttons, and it supports Apple Pay and Google Pay. And if you’re using a third party gateway
like PayPal, that is also offered as a payment option for like buy now on desktop. Awesome. Next, we want more. What’s up next? Here’s-this one is probably my number one
pet peeve. Is the main menu, everyone jams everything
into their main menu and then they put all their shopping into a drop down menu. So they’ve got one tiny four little word that’s
probably not even the first thing that says meekly chop. And then next to that is like about us, FAQs,
contact us and a whole bunch of other garbage that doesn’t matter. Go on Amazon site. All of that garbage is in the footer where
it should be if people need that stuff they will find it or like if you’re using a theme
like Turbo put that in the top menu, just that tiny menu in the upper left. Where your main menu should be devoted 100%
exclusively to shopping, which will let you instead of having that sad shop drop down,
break this stuff out of the drop down so that at a glance, I don’t have to click on anything
hover on a tablet, it can add a glance, see, oh, here your categories, men’s tops, women’s
tops, gee whatever it is. Yeah, that one drives me nuts. And along with that, oh my gosh, stop putting
home as a link. At this point. It is 2018, almost there its 2019. Everyone knows to click the logo or go back
they’re not stupid. And then the third is, use a pop up and collect
emails. It’s like the magic of your business, the
real value is in the audience. And the email list is the best way to collect
that audience. So even if you’re not sending out newsletters,
you don’t even have a service hooked up, get a pop up that collects emails for you. It will be worth it. A good if you’ve got good content and a good
pop up. A 3% opt in rate would be typical. Yeah. So I just want to unpack that first statement
there. Shopping focus navigation needs to be top
of mind. That’s how we approach any redesign on our
end. And the reason being is look at your analytics,
and you can see what pages people are visiting. And the most visited categories and products
are probably 85/15, where you’re making all your money. So are you saying that your about page that
gets 1% of your traffic has the same weight in your business as your, let’s say, you’re
an apparel brand as your men’s tops, which is 70% of your revenue? No! Put that stuff in the footer. You want to get people at? Its eCommerce and in short, is the least clicks
possible at the checkout. Is how you want it to work. Yes, yeah, that’s it. So with conversion rate optimization, my step
one is let’s remove a whole bunch of garbage. Let’s make it as fast get people to the best
selling product as fast as possible. And that’s why I said that I use that add
to cart percent as an indicator that will tell you if people could find their product. If your Add To Cart percent is real low, that’s
scary, I want to see that 10%, 15%, 20% will be amazing. But like any of somewhere above five up to
15 and that is a very good indicator of have you made it as easy as possible to find products? Because even if they get to that best selling
product and it’s not quite the right thing for them, a switch has been flipped. They are now in shopping mode. They are now browsing your store. It is the difference between walking past
the store front and going into the store. And now okkay, now they’re in your remarketing
funnel etc. Yeah, I mean, I don’t know if you were going
to touch on this at all, but I’m thinking about just getting people to the product and
adding to cart. something we’ve been doing a lot lately is
upgrading the built in search and filtering functionality with our Shopify stores and
using Smart Search like auto fills and more robust filterings. You’d be surprised at how that really helps
get people to the product faster. Oh yeah, searches is huge, like an easy one. We found this years ago, and it has held consistent. If you change the label on the search box
from “search…” to “search the store…” – it works so much better. And if you have a big one, big search bar,
you could put, like example searches and just link to the search query string for those
things. Like, you know, example you can see this at
Cowbucker.com, they sell hats. Cowbucker with a “B.” There’s like a big search
bar, it’ll be like examples like your favorite team, your school, etc. And that prompt really gets people more engaged
with it. Yeah, to your point Chase. Search is hugely important. You need only go look at Amazon to see that
like the search bar is always the primary focus first thing everywhere to understand
how important that is. And the auto fill is is great as well. What is your favorite search app, Mr. Clymer? Lately we’ve been using Searchanise quite
a bit. Searchanise? Yeah, sounds good. We’ve actually got a pretty robust SOP written
for that we’ve implemented I’d say a dozen times this year. I gotta check that out. It’s pretty cool. We use Findify several times, its good. And it adds a lot of like collection filtering
and stuff, which is nice. But you know, there’s I have not encountered
the perfect search app yet. So I should check out Searchanise. Yeah, they all have their own their way solve
the solve the exact same problem. But I think especially for mobile? You’ll find that a lot of themes on mobile,
their search is just an afterthought. They’re trying to be a pretty theme and get
people to install. But on mobiles, people aren’t navigating your
mega menu, they’re going straight to search and if it doesn’t help them get to your product,
you’re just going to lose that sale. Exactly. That was going to be my question is the pointers
that you’re giving us, the store owners. Do we take these with the you know, our mobile
first I know my most of my shoppers are mobile and I get stuck. I kind of get stuck in that mode of looking
at on my on my laptop versus, you know, mobile user. How do you combat that? Or how do you talk to your clients about that? And how should we pay attention to, you know,
desktop vs. mobile? I don’t think there is a, you can’t focus
on just one. Because yeah, things are going to skew toward
mobile. But it’s often it’s a longer process. It is a multi device process. It is very much the case where like, I’ll
be sitting on if you could, you’ve done that we’ve all done this. You and I, you see something on TV or an idea
pops in your head as you’re watching Netflix, then you load up your phone, you find the
thing, you research it, and then you don’t necessarily purchase. That you’re like all right, I’ll check that
out later. And like in my case, I will that I count on
the remarketing ad to pop up in my desktop feed, to go check it out. Like I may see you may see people like have
a higher-if you look into going what Google Analytics you can segment by device. You may see, oh there’s a higher like time
on site is higher, pages viewed as higher on mobil, but purchase rate is higher; conversion
rate is higher on desktop. That’s probably what’s going on. But the dynamic checkout button that’s like
perfect for mobile, because it takes like the big pain point, the big stopper on mobile
is on that little, despite all the texting we do, nobody wants to type in all their their
address and their credit card number with the tiny, the tiny phone keyboard, it sucks. Oh true, that’s true. Buy now button ,lets you make that purchase
in literally eight seconds. You can time it. It’s just extraordinary. So let’s that’s actually probably a good time
to close again is like everyone needs to get that dynamic buy button, but can you give
our listeners just I want to listen to you all day. So we’ll probably have to have you on often
as a regular on the show just for to help me with my sales on my shop. But what are some free resources that you
could give our listeners immediately? I know you have a newsletter, correct? Yes, yeah, we’ve got. Do you want to well, I’m probably best known
for The Unofficial Shopify podcast we’ve got, at the time of this airing, probably a million
downloads. Wow, congrats. I hope to have cracked a million downloads,
should be great. And yeah, that’s a great resource Unofficial
Shopify podcast. Or if you never want to miss an episode and
you want to be able to pick my brain. Google made Kurt Elster, Kurt Elster.com,
sign up for my newsletter. The newsletter gets sent from my very real
email address. And I despite what some people think I read
my own email. So if you hit reply to it, and ask a thoughtful
question, I will send you back a thoughtful answer. That’s how we met. Now that’s great. Yep I emailed Kurt and now we’re friends that
the world is crazy. And you also launched a YouTube channel recently. I’ve got yeah, we got a YouTube channel with
the 2000 subscribers. That’s fun. I wanted to experiment. You know, honestly, the way I started my podcast
because I was like, you know what, we could do that and I want an excuse to buy a microphone. And now I’ve got like this crazy thousand
dollar setup, because I geeked out. And but the same with YouTube. I said, you know what I want? I want to do a YouTube channel, because why
not? I was feeling guilty about buying an expensive
car. So I’m like, how do I monetize the car? Ah, I started a YouTube series called Sunday
Drives in which I drive from my house to the gas station, my favorite gas station, I’ve
opinions on gas stations. And however long that drive is, that is the
length of the video. And so I would do there like eight minutes. And I would run through like a tip, Tip for
that week. And that was how I got going on YouTube. I called it the sunday drive series. So if you look up ethercycle, that’s our agency
name on YouTube, you’ll find that I like it. So Chase and I need to visit you and come
to your meetup and we want to do one of the Sunday drives with you also. I’m just gonna put that out there. Well, it’s a two seater so you’re gonna have
to take turns. Oh, well yeah, Chase can just go. We’ll take, we’ll take turns or something
or you can let us drive your car. Yeah I don’t know if that’s happening. I don’t know what it is. But I’ll learn how to get in it. Not in the Chicago winter. How good are you at this? Oh I put winter tires on it I’m not messing
around. Nice! Who here could drive a six speed? That’s that’s all we need to know/ I can drive a six speed. All right I’ll let you drive it. All right. Yeah. Deal awesome. That’s I actually learned how to drive manual
before I learned how to drive automatic. So did my wife she’s the driver longer than
I have, but oh marriage gets real. You know what’s funny is I don’t believe that,
that our kids now they’re not going to know how to drive manuals. No not all. What aren’t you like 17? Chase? Yup, yup, you know, going on. Child prodigy he is. I actually I’ll be 29 in three weeks. Oh, congratulations. It’s weird when you hit 30. That’s when you get your robot body. Yes! They come in the night and do it. Yeah. All right, Kurt. Is there? Is there anything else you want to leave with
our listeners? Let them know. You know what, if you want to get into conversion
rate optimization, you really want to experiment with this. There’s two easy ways to do this one, “you
gotta let someone else use your site.” The issue is you have seen your site, through
your eyes more than anyone else. No one spends as much time on your website
as you do, you are now completely blind to the problems with it. So do this, get someone who’s never messed
with your site. Give them hand them your phone and say, “Hey,
give them a task be like to just find to purchase a product, watch them, do it. Keep your mouth shut. It will be maddening. And when you realize how bad your site is,
in the eyes of someone else, now go start messing with hotjar. Hotjar.com. Free, they’ve got a free plan that’s great. That is a really powerful tool. You can run heat apps on your site scroll
maps, you want to know why people aren’t buying? They don’t let you do a thing where on exit
it’s called an exit poll. When people go to exit, let’s say they’re
viewing a product page, boom thing pops up and asks, hey, is there a reason why you didn’t
make a purchase today? Oh, that’s so cool. And then you can so you can literally find
out people’s objections. Hotjar is just a fabulous tool. I get nothing from them. I don’t even know them. I’m just enamored with it. Check out Hotjar. Hotjar is amazing Yeah, no, great. Yeah, we’re gonna link to the multitude of
informational resources that you put out in the show notes. Yes. I’m gonna listen to this like, several times
because I think I need to get busy on my store like, right when we you know, get off this
recording. Send me your store. I will, I will send you a screen cast. Oh, I will love that. We’ll have to do a live one after two. It’ll be really exciting. So now thank you so much. I’ve definitely learned a lot and I know our
listeners hopefully will have a lot of takeaways also. Yeah, thank you so much, Kurt. Thank you My pleasure. We can’t thank our guests enough for coming
on the show and sharing the truth. Links and more will be available in the show
notes. If you found any actionable device in this
podcast that you’d like to apply to your business, please reach out at electriceye.io/Connect. Please make sure to subscribe on Apple podcast,
Spotify or your podcast app of choice.

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