April 9, 2020
▶️ Interviewing Gabriel Rene From Verses | EP#196

▶️ Interviewing Gabriel Rene From Verses | EP#196


Hey everyone I’m Scott Cunningham aka @scottcbusiness and today we’re here with Gabriel Rene who is the CEO of verses.io
if you’d like to start off just by introducing yourself that’d be awesome
everybody thanks for having me Scott yeah absolutely so so how busy is your
day on an average day working at a versus um well there’s only 24 hours in
the day so I I work about 25 of them yeah fairly busy
yeah it’s it’s a you know like any startup it’s full-time plus overtime
plus any time type of work yeah yeah fair enough
so I guess can you give us a brief introduction to versus and what it’s all
about yeah so we feel that the convergence of exponential technologies
in the 21st century but really kicking off in 2020 here is the key disruptive
transformation of of the century and will disrupt every single category of
industry in business and the way we live work and play so when you look at that
convergence and the ingredients you’re looking at so I’m the AI but also
artificial intelligence and as artificial intelligence but then also
augmented reality and virtual reality Internet of Things and sensors and
beacons and robotics and then block chains and cryptocurrencies and other
forms of digital transactions and then going a little further down of course we
get into some more sci-fi stuff like you know sort of the biotech and and quantum
computing but if you look at those as a whole they’re all converging in
different ways the things where the way that we’re interacting with technology
you know through voice through gesture facial recognition computer vision and
then the automation of contracts the way that smart contracts are nailing that
that sort of data layer of a new sort of trust at the data layer
more intelligence at the logic layer and new you know holographic datasets at the
interface layer are creating a new web and so we call that web 3.0 meaning all
three elements of the stack but connected through a new type of protocol
which we’ve developed at vs. which is called the H STP protocol so instead of
the hypertext Transfer Protocol which is what the world wide web is in or less
way of interactive pages that connects with each other all of these
interactions are about spatial interactions you know we use call the
different types of computing decentralized computing or distributed
computing with edge or blockchain you know spatial computing which is a R and
B are ubiquitous AII OT is doing computing all around us it’s this trend
is really about computing being in the world around us and not behind screens
and really computer sending messages back and forth we sure so what we’ve
done in vs. we’ve developed these this new structure a new sort of set of
protocols that allow all those different technologies to form networks and to be
able to communicate together to enable coordination between humans machines and
AI and to enable collaboration between different organizations and groups you
know within supply chains like across you know the smart cities of the future
and and ultimately the world and so that’s what we’re we’re dedicated to
developing now-now-now tested these poor core protocols we have a number of early
sort of alpha partners moving into beta at the end of this year and then we’re
planning on a global public launch probably sometime next summer that’s
awesome and we were just talking earlier I met your team about a year ago at
futurist would you just like to share some of the updates that have happened
since then yeah I think most importantly ye have launched the spatial web
foundation as its own nonprofit and versus was then formed after futurist
as a for-profit company kind of in the spirit of Linux and Red Hat where you’ve
got a non-profit where the core protocols are being held and then you’ve
got a for-profit entity that’s building applications and doing integrations and
monetizing that and helping to really drive adoption in the tunnels
yeah awesome so you mentioned previously that you wrote a book called the spatial
web can you share a little bit more about that yeah so this original web
just came out in September 2019 so about a month and a half ago it’s been number
one bestseller within a few days and it’s been trending is a number one
bestseller and in the computer and Technology section on Amazon it’s
awesome the time thank you the title of the book is how web 3.0 connects humans
machines and AI to transform the world so it’s really about this idea that most
of our stories of the future when it comes to these kinds of sci-fi
technologies are like dystopic tales that are all of them in tiers kind of
yeah yeah the power of these technologies overwhelming us and us
overwhelming each other and it’s always sort of either a sort of robotic
invasion or the AI taking over or people using these technologies to destroy the
world and or so we we have we don’t have very good stories about our future as a
race but we also don’t have ways of looking at the future in ways that that
solved the challenges we’re facing today with our technologies so if we look at
the last 100 years of technological development amongst all the amazing
productivity and health benefits and societal benefits at scale and all of
the luxuries that we enjoy we’ve also arguably brought ourselves to the point
of you know species extinction and and so many of
those effects whether they were from us era or the fallout from the digital
transformation era like in web 2.0 we’re dealing with you know privacy invasion
and surveillance capitalism and hacks have all different sizes and stripes and
the abuse of these data sets were basically to sell to advertisers like
that then are able to manipulate us emotionally and then even ultimately as
we’ve seen our our elections we we those are all the result of a lack of thinking
about the potential negative effects of our technologies we all tend to think
about the positive effects of our technologies and only think of those we
didn’t build privacy you know into the web we didn’t build security into the
rabbit you know it was much later that we were able to add and get adoption for
something like HTTPS this is one of the reasons why I think blockchain emerged
because the trust the trust layer of the web was actually missing and even worse
became something that could be monetized and we could be exploited by so now when
you say artificial intelligence robotics you know holographic information digital
twins and like how much how much more powerful of those technologies and what
will the impact be a hundred years from now so what the book tries to cover is
lay out a foundation for how we build a new kind of a web in the 21st century
that that has trust interoperability privacy and security by by default by
you know by design into the protocol layer itself lived in all the various
applications that are built on top of it much like we’ve seen lost thirty years
of the web can take those into consideration and and sort of avoid this
dystopic sci-fi future from one that maybe works much better and we use those
technologies to reverse some of the challenges that have come from the fall
over the last hundred years of our development and use them to propel us
forward into what we hope would be for the first time a globally networked
civilization that works together forever yeah Wow so guys and girls you got to go
get that book in and see what’s up for yourself
and Amazon bestseller so clearly clearly it’s got something in there for everyone
so how was the idea for versus originally for more like what was the
motivation behind starting verses so I started working at a company in advance
rnt lab back in the 90s more or less out of high school called cyber lab and
cyber lab worked on a lot of early augmented and virtual reality projects
early database design stuff for Human Genome Project as an example a lot of
projects projects with different governments and and large nonprofits
UNESCO and knighted Nations projects and worked with lot many largest companies
Apple and tell Microsoft Yahoo and as the web was emerging in the sort of mid
90s culturally there was the whole concept of cyberpunk and cyberpunk was a
sort of 80s and then 90s sci-fi techno geek cultural phenomena that based on a
lot of science fiction novels that had come out in that era that described a
networked Network civilizations often in dystopic terms Blade Runner is a great
example The Matrix is a great example there are other films of that era like
Johnny mnemonic and the lawnmower man and not all these are like the greatest
cinema in the world but um but the thing that’s common to many of them is that
they describe a world where robots and humans and holographic information and a
sort of three-dimensional version of the web is what everyone’s immersed in
everyone’s connection to the network and so even as the web was becoming a real
thing for the first time on top of the Internet itself we already thought well
this is going to end up being a physical network and it’s going to be a
holographic data and it’s going to be a 3d web in the world
um and virtual reality will allow you to go in and out of different imaginary
worlds in every every movie and every book and every story instead of being
something you experience on the screen will be something that you are immersed
in and can interact with like the holodeck on Star Trek so uh city has
come out of science fiction like MIT like much of our greatest technology and
we over many many years while working on various different projects that touched
on these technologies weathers arv Rai or mobile networks and mobile devices
and which became I becoming Internet of Things and wearable technologies and and
then ecommerce you know how e-commerce sort of worked on the web all that
leading up to about three years ago seeing this opportunity where many of
these technologies were going to converge and the key ingredient there
was that blockchain had emerged as this new way of enabling trusted data sets
now if you if you can’t trust what your eyes see if you’re on the holodeck in
Star Trek and you can’t trust your eye see how do you know how will you know
what’s accurate or what’s real in terms of any sort the data is not merely
numbers on the screen but is like a holographic projection or even haptic
where you can feel something whether you’re jacked in like like Elon
Musk’s you know release company and a number of others are doing
a human computer brain interfacing eye contact lenses I mean there’s fast
forward 20 30 years from now and those sci-fi ideas they’re not so blocking
really enabled a new possibility around two things one creating digital scarcity
which the web and digitization created digital abundance with that it driven
the value of everything is is effectively zero or towards zero digital
scarcity meant that the uniqueness of the digital asset which could be like
for example the perfect one to want a holographic projection of Gabriel
talking got you know driven by an AI using
Google duplex for my voice like maybe this is me maybe this isn’t right
right now we’re interfacing through Skype I look pretty realistic
you look pretty realistic but we’ve never met I don’t actually know so let’s
fast forward I’m meeting in an immersive environment you know 15 years from now
you know we’ve been doing R&D long enough I can tell you that it would be
impossible to be able to tell we’ve seen the precursors of this with things like
deep fix which basically cost some you know a couple of pennies and any college
kid can stick your face on anything right so now that becomes fully
holographic it becomes hyper real like like the best video game we’ve got from
pac-man so you know League of Legends I mean or even more hyper real video games
with real time interactivity with competing them hundreds thousands of
millions of people interacting simultaneously means we will drive past
the point of what’s considered the uncanny valley or the reality
singularity I like to call it where we’re not gonna be able to tell well
block change suddenly enables us to have a way to verify the other senses what
datasets are real no matter how they’re being represented and that opened up a
window to start thinking about the possibility of web 3.0 becoming this
sort of what we used to call the Metaverse which now we call the spatial
web where all these technologies can converge and we can have these amazing
immersive experiences and IOT devices and robotics can all talk to each other
and the eyes can coordinate and you know we can interact with holographic
information but suddenly you could trust which IOT device registered to which
company which cameras being turned on and where did this holographic
information come from the provenance of experience on could could suddenly
become valid and in fact might possibly be one of the more important things
challenges to solve in the 21st century if in fact those other technologies are
advancing so fast blockchain suddenly became the almost like the adults in the
room that would help us to bridle this horse so it’s not just you know
running us right off the cliff and it’s something we should control him direct
yeah yeah absolutely um so what are some of the next big
updates in the works for for versus like what are we gonna see in the next six
months or so so we’re targeting a large symposium for
q1 of next year we’ll be demonstrating a number of functional demos around
applications for it supply chain and for retail and for entertainment and for
smart cities with a number of different partners and then we’ll also be
releasing technical information we’re going to enable people to sign up for
the beta and all that leads up then I think to to the larger global public
release sometime in q2 so that’s where our focus is at the moment meanwhile vs.
is doing a number of different development projects for various
partners a lot of it focused in supply chain and logistics where we need both
so you know you really want provenance that might be related it’s a blockchain
but you also need the benefits of performance increases that happen when
you suddenly allow people to access holographic information you can imagine
a house picker moving with your warehouse trying to find a box right now
the they kind of look at a series of numbers and then they look at the
numbers on the screen they try to find the Box in three-dimensional space they
take it and they go put it at the drop-off location so we’re developing
applications to help warehouse workers be able to route themselves through
million square foot warehouses speeds up productivity we’re working on a number
of projects right now with with a number of universities some around climate
credit accounting there’s a number of smart city projects that were also Co
developing with the number of partners and we’ll be revealing who those people
are and what those projects are in the coming months awesome I’m interested to
see um maybe like something to help navigate people through like grocery
stores or like you know like just retail consumption and being able to find the
products that you’re looking for I think that’d be really really interest
so so what what is it gonna look like in the net in like a bit of a longer term
like what is the vision for the next two years to five years for four verses like
in in the most ideal sense because obviously it’s it’s hard to see that far
in the future with how fast everything’s changing but uh I guess just like in an
ideal world what would that look like well there’s two different there’s two
different branches to the strategy so one is that the spatial web foundation
is focused on driving it we’re missing adoption so more awareness and more
adoption so working with working with other standards bodies and organizations
working with governments working with policy makers and building out developer
tools and developer communities that can really start to drive their own just
cases and applications and supporting lives and then on the lab side of the
house our focus is building applications and
integrations so that large organizations large corporations and governments can
start to integrate these technologies that’s scaled so this is these are these
are like the most practical boring applications that you can come up with
you know how to manage ports how to manage leads to the trucks how to how to
manage warehouses how to manage supply chain how to manage energy grids and
their gas and electric and then and then kind of even at the same time
considerations around climate and impact at scale and government sort of policies
land title registrations all these things that are very much sort of
infrastructure related that’s our core focus there so the two go hand-in-hand
because this shows the viability and applicability of the core technologies
in in large use cases and then the Foundation’s focus is really a little
more top-down in terms of driving influence but also
bottom-up with respect to supporting you know developer communities for more
organic development okay yeah that’s awesome um do you find
that like are there any other projects doing this or do you guys find that you
were pretty much the one of the most unique like people in this space right
now or is there anything else is there any other projects doing something
similar how does your how does versus fit in with that
um there isn’t anyone doing what we’re doing everyone’s working on something
that tends to be focused on an industry it’s like it’s like a technology focus
on an industry so think of technology it’s like they’re people focused on
Bloxom but people focused on spatial computing but people focused on
artificial intelligences people focused on coyote in some rare cases you get one
plus the other watch chain for I have or block same for VR she did something like
an decentral right um IOT plus blockchain
sort of way and there’s there’s a handful of examples like that I don’t
know if you action yet but I think that there are important steps in the right
direction um we’re not we’re not any of those
technologies we’re literally a protocol designed to connect those technologies
so they’re the world wide web is not a it’s not a computing technology it’s not
a you know it’s not a storage technology it’s it’s it’s really a protocol
designed to connect in this case certain types of computers and fundamentally
enabling content management pages so we’ve developed HS TP hyperspace
transaction protocol to enable interactions and transactions in space
it’s really moving the idea of the web from something behind the screen that
isn’t about sharing like autumn automating the sharing of information to
automating interactions in the world so there isn’t anyone else going for
this in part because um maybe they just want cyberpunk geeks from the – yeah I
mean it’s a big undertaking and you guys are really like building out the
foundation for for anyone else to come and then start to try to build on top of
that so so what do you have like a current user base or is that going to be
in the future when when it launches you don’t have a user base because we’re not
we’re not a consumer facing my continued your fits for developers to develop
things on top right okay some patients those users there are users that are
that work are more like partners that we’re working with that are developing
applications and that’s there are they’re very targeted for different
industries and so that we’re able to showcase certain technologies which
again you will be able to share at our symposium and in q1 but it’s very much
the opposite of the sort of ICO blockchain protocol approach to the
market where we’re let’s write a white paper then we’ll do a token sale then
we’ll use the tokens to develop the technology then we’ll get people to
start building on top of it and then they’ll sort of dozen gaps in wool those
then users will come and I think if we’re being honest I haven’t looked at
the most recent numbers but I don’t know if there’s any successful doubt today of
any comment that is it’s probably if you can take the most the top 10 most
successful adapts they’re probably at the very very bottom of the list of of
apps in in Apple’s App Store or the Android App Store into hundreds or maybe
several thousand users right so I think that even something really successful
can considerably success or arguably success or like aetherium hasn’t driven
a lot of actual complications and as a result there are
hardly any users the vast majority of all users right now using black chain or
playing games or playing poker wait so blockchain as a as a as a philosophy in
2018 has been a commercial failure in 2019 but that’s not a great indication
of the success of the technology I think that over the next several years we’re
gonna start to see these various applications even the the the test that
we’re seeing in commercial like large-scale commercial deployments a lot
of which around supply chain have not been wildly successful and and many of
them are still in process and we don’t have that data so the world is still out
on blockchain what is it exactly that it’s good for and how is it able to be
used but I would argue that the world is also not bought into Internet of Things
yet I don’t think that it’s bought into argumentative virtual reality it’s not
bought into artificial intelligence like all of these technologies are nascent
and new but they our argument is that they actually are co-related and go
together you know the people you know 10 plus
years ago trying to trying to describe why the cloud was important you know in
McDonald’s when McDonald’s approach to get McDonald’s calm they were like this
is useless why do we need this for um two years later they bought it for three
million dollars yep so these technologies have to prove
themselves out and the markets have to emerge but I don’t look at users as a
metric for success to us right now important because I don’t think that I
don’t think the markets right enough to use that metric instead what they look
at is the scale of interest and demand that we’re getting from large
organizations and governments in and institutions that have problems that
need a multi-tiered solution yeah yeah said so absolutely that’s that’s that’s
the lens that we’re looking yeah yeah I know that makes that makes a lot of
sense is your team planning to attend conferences I know you said in q1 you
have the symposium are you going to be attending any conferences over the next
year that you want to let anyone know about in advance to make sure that
they’ll show up thank you we don’t have anything planned right now
you know 2017 and 2018 was filled with so many conferences all around the world
which which is great we met a lot of wonderful people and we’ve got some you
know participating in the community and I think around this movement a lot of it
was which was focused on crypto events and blockchain events and since you know
we attend events that are a I and V are related and and IOT related and smart
city related however we have no plans between now and our symposium in q1
mainly because we’re coming in to the end of the year and we’re very focused
on kind of what do we now need to give to present so you know please come to
the spatial web org fill out you know send us your email we’ll make sure we
keep in touch or come to verses dot IO same thing and and we know we’ll be
doing a live broadcast of this of the symposium and we’ll be making a lot of
materials available for everyone at that point so no matter where you are you
don’t have to meet us in Beijing or Tokyo or New York or Vancouver Toronto
or LA you can meet us online and we think that that’s probably the best way
to create the content share it with everybody and then be able to chop that
up in little pieces and and then you and then come back on with people like you
and talk about what we think well at the symposium and get your feedback and and
and your community’s feedback as well so no plans for all of our all of our
future events at the moment are all taking place in cyberspace yeah that’s
well that that’s make that’s what makes sense right yeah the natural progression
of things so so where can anyone go to learn about this you you just mentioned
a couple of the the two websites but if you just want to mention them again for
anyone who wants to go check those out yes please come check us out this facial
web org the sights just gone up so bear with us
it’s the high levels of detailed information give us your email we’ll
stay in touch you can also visit us at versus Deo and you can go to Amazon if
you’d like to learn more about this and look up the spatial web it’s written by
myself Gabriel Rene in my my partner Dan mates and you can follow me at twitter
at g real one-one-one-one i I post a lot of weird stuff related
all these emerging technologies and yeah those are the those are the cyber handle
locations for now and one day hopefully we’ll be doing this this whole type of
interview in the spatial lab itself yeah absolutely yeah so everyone makes
sure to go and check that out and make sure to check out the book if you want
to learn more is there anything else you’d like to say before we end this off
just that I appreciate everything you’re doing Scott and I think this is what
makes the world around it’s people sharing their ideas with each other so I
think so thanks for bringing me on today yeah absolutely and thanks so much for
coming on I think since you guys are doing such a unique project I think it’s
really awesome to be able to share that with the audience and give them some
more insight so that they can look forward and definitely check out the
symposium in q1 of next year for sure so again thank you so much for coming on
this was awesome and I wish you all the best with your projects thank you very
much Cheers, bye bye

2 thoughts on “▶️ Interviewing Gabriel Rene From Verses | EP#196

  1. These are some of the questions we will cover:

    • Can you tell us a little bit about yourself? – 0:20

    • How busy are you now / How does your day look? – 0:29

    • Can you give us a brief introduction to Verses? – 0:52

    • The last time I saw a demo was at Futurist last year, what has changed within Verses since then? – 4:05

    • You mentioned you wrote the book The Spatial Web recently would you care to share a little bit about that? – 4:50

    • How was the idea for Verses formed and what was the motivation behind it? – 9:08

    • What are the next big updates for Verses to release soon or that are in the works? – 15:40

    • Where do you see Verses going in the next year? The next 5 years? – 17:58

    • Where does Verses fit in with other existing similar projects? – 20:00

    • What is the current userbase size and how well is the Verses growing? – 22:35

    • Will you or any of your team be attending any upcoming crypto or blockchain related events? – 26:30

    • Can you share with everyone where they can go to learn more about this? – 28:34

    • Is there anything else you’d like to share? – 29:30

    Let me know what you think about this in the comments below and don’t forget to subscribe!

  2. What's with that permasmirk you both guys are stuck in? I instinctively don't trust anybody who's so detached from the reality that he won't realize what his body is doing. Is it coincidence that it's always this sort of people who present these visions of grandeur while they can't be trusted with operating heavy machinery without hurting someone?

Leave a Reply

Your email address will not be published. Required fields are marked *